• HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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    11 months ago

    Which further makes my point.

    An occupied territory with partisan violence gets more occupation, which gets more partisan violence.

    Do you work for an occupying force, because that’s the only way occupation makes sense.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      No I just didn’t bring my personal emotions and biases into this discussion. One merits alone, you have to have a plan for after this war, and “our bad, we’re leaving” is the worst of those options.

      That’s why I said

      This war has already happened. You can’t un-fuck a chicken. If there was no war, then I think you’d have a lot more ground to stand on here.

      • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        No I just didn’t bring my personal emotions.

        Projection

        “our bad, we’re leaving” is the worst of those options.

        Occupation is not going to solve this issue either.

        Lets wind the clock back to The Troubles. There wasn’t a military solution, it was a diplomatic one.

        Funny how partisan violence died down real quick when Sinn Fein was invited to the table in good faith.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Lets wind the clock back to The Troubles. There wasn’t a military solution, it was a diplomatic one

          Can’t do this while terrorists govern and removing terrorists from governance is literally what this war is.

          The Gazan conflict is a substantially more complicated problem than the Troubles.

          Insults don’t work on me.

          • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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            11 months ago

            Insults don’t work on me.

            Wheres the insult?

            The IRA are a terrorist organisation, Sinn Fein was the political party that had deniability. There was terrorism happening in while the negotiations for the situation they are in now were happening.

            I’m not saying negotiate with Hamas, but I am saying increasing the military presence there while restricting more freedoms is the wrong thing to do as is evidenced by history.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Sinn Fein was the political party that had deniability.

              This is the difference. Hamas is literally founded on the genocide of Israel, and as the government of Gaza, the sole political party. When their position is vacated, if the prevailing opinion of Gazans has not changed (and the time since the Oct 7 massacres has definitely not helped that) you’ll just get a different terror org running the show.

              I am saying increasing the military presence there while restricting more freedoms is the wrong thing to do as is evidenced by history.

              They have to help rebuild or they will be in a worse position. Sometimes, as a leader, you have no good choices and must pick a least bad choice.

              Even saying this, I think we both know Israel will fuck up that last part. Their leadership sucks and they’ll do a bad job and round and round we’ll go. That’s why this situation sucks so much.

              • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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                11 months ago

                We both know that Israel’s rebuilding plans means more Palestinian displacement.

                And this is a bad situation of the IDF’s making.

                Military occupation isn’t the answer. And at this point there are no good answers as Palestine has been forced into a failed state by Israel.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  We both know that Israel’s rebuilding plans means more Palestinian displacement.

                  I very strongly disagree with this statement, based on past two-state offerings by Israel.

                  And at this point there are no good answers as Palestine has been forced into a failed state by Israel.

                  Here we agree tho. We are discussing which shit sandwich is most palatable.

                  • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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                    11 months ago

                    I very strongly disagree with this statement, based on past two-state offerings by Israel.

                    As if Israel hasn’t consistently taken land through settler occupation for decades.

                  • VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social
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                    11 months ago

                    Israel hasn’t actually wanted a two state solution since Rabin. They pretend to offer it then withdraw it the second something goes wrong, which they goad into happening on purpose by doing things like continuing increasing West Bank occupations while negotiating, or propping up Hamas to do a terrorism while negotiating, so they have an excuse to stop negotiations.