I have been looking at them a lot recently and they have a premium price is it worth it?
What does it look like when you want to upgrade? Like can you just swap out all parts over time and essentially it’s like having a custom desktop, but in small form factor.
Can you buy a base model and upgrade components over time?
Would it suit my use cases for it? Which are to run Linux, I have to use Windows as a Software Dev and so can’t do it on my main. Can I run Minecraft on Linux? I know, but I like that game it makes me happy to unwind.
I want to get more into cyber security related tasks and most likely increase my Darknet activities using Tails.
I have one (FW 16 AMD), I don’t have any complaints so far. It comes mostly assembled but you put your RAM, SSD, screen bezel, keyboard, touchpad and all the port modules yourself. The machine is well built and genuinely very easy to work with. You can swap the keyboard and touchpad without touching a screw.
For the most part it seems like they’re holding up to their promise, you can buy a new motherboard for a CPU upgrade, remove the old one, put the new one in, and you’re good to go with the rest of your existing stuff (as long as it’s compatible, if the new board needs DDR5 instead of DDR4 then you need new RAM too but that’s expected). So far everything I’ve disassembled as part of the firs assembly has been a breeze. It’s a very nice laptop to work on and swap parts that’s for sure. You get the assurance that you can swap the battery, input modules, IO modules for the foreseeable future.
Where I’ve been disappointed is the third-party ecosystem for it is not what I was hoping it would be, there’s not a lot of third-party modules for it. But the designs are all open-sourced so you can 3D print parts for it. Maybe in the future we’ll have more modules. Overall though, it’s not like you could even think about that on any other laptop brands, you get the laptop and it’s what it’ll be for the rest of its life.
Runs great on Linux, most of the company actually uses Linux so support for Linux is very good. All of the models will run Minecraft very well, Minecraft in particular has been known to run significantly better on Linux to begin with, especially on Intel graphics where the OpenGL drivers on Windows are terrible.
One neat thing about swapping the motherboard is that you can easily just 3d print a case for it and use it as a server! I saw a post on the homelab community where FW was selling older model MBs for cheap, and people snapped them up for that. Someone sells a slim case for it, but they also have a printable model for it online
Yep and there’s even a BIOS option for that use case! I really like they they go “oh, people use the parts for that, we’ll add a feature for it!”
That’s awesome. I don’t have one of their products but generally feel a good vibe about the company
Thanks for the information. I think I’ve made up my mind and it will be my next laptop.
I particularly like the idea of 3D printing a case if I ever upgrade the mobo and using it as a server as the replies mentioned.
I have been running one for 2 years and next generation am going to do the thing they were designed to do and upgrade my laptop without throwing away the whole laptop. So for less than $1000 I will be upgrading to something that is faster than my desktop, and it’s portable.
The price tag is premium, at first, then it actually saves money.
What will you do with the old internals?
Sell them
Probably turn it into a dedicated mini pc for the 3D printer. It’s still decently powerful I just don’t need it anymore. I might gift it to someone as a mini pc, depends on if I see someone who needs a computer but doesn’t have one.
Thanks for the reply.
That makes sense on it being premium at first but then the options are there to upgrade and repurpose old parts.
Totally, I’m not buying a new monitor, keyboard, speakers, webcam, or chassis. Just a new CPU and in this case RAM, as we made the switch from DDR4 to DDR5.
Imagine having to buy a new keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers, every time you wanted to upgrade your desktop. It’s the same thing.
I love mine I’ve had it over 2 years. It was a first-gen DIY Framework 13 and I ran into a faulty fan early on. I worked with their tech support and they sent a replacement fan under warranty. Took 5 minutes to put it in and all parts inside have QR codes that take you to the marketplace for replacements and repair instructions.
They do have official Linux support for Ubuntu and Fedora. I can attest to Linux Mint working well on it although I don’t use the fingerprint reader, which I’ve read has some issues on some distros.
As for upgradability, I’ve not needed to yet but you can just order a new motherboard and any other parts off their marketplace and drop it straight in. Should take around 20 minutes or so. I suspect this would take longer on the 16 since it is more complex.
Also, here is a link to the marketplace if you want to browse the parts. I think you could build one from scratch from here, but I think it would cost more that way. https://frame.work/marketplace
Fingerprint reader working perfectly on my FW16. Not sure it’s the same reader module, but getting it set up on Arch was easy, pretty much worked out of the box in Plasma 6. Adding fprint to
pam.d/sudo
also worked right out of the box for fingerprint sudo.Thanks for the reply. I have made my mind up and it will be my next machine.
Thanks for pointing me to the marketplace too.
I have a first Gen core i5 Framework 13. I’ve upgraded a couple components that weren’t so great on those units (hinge and speakers) and the upgrades were easy. Otherwise I’ve been pretty happy with it and haven’t felt a need to upgrade the mainboard yet
So you really can upgrade many parts. I never would have imagined hinges would be upgradable.
Yup, they took feedback from customers and have provided modified components for customers that want to purchase them. Speakers, hinges, screens, stiffer chassis. All able to be replaced with the included screwdriver and guides online.
I have a framework 13. Bought it with 12th gen intel mainboard, upgraded it to AMD when that came out. Also upgraded the battery, RAM, and soon the screen when the 120hz one ships. It’s super easy to get into, just five screws and then pop the trackpad/keyboard cable off. I honestly love it.
Framework has fantastic support for windows and Linux. There used to be some minor fixes needed on certain models but they’ve since resolved them and my experience on Fedora and Arch have been plug and play. On windows they have a driver install script that installs everything in one go, that’s nice too. And yes Minecraft does run on Linux, at least the Java version does. Idk about bedrock though
Thanks for the reply. It will be my next purchase.
Is it better to go AMD in my use case then?
I’ve had my fw 13 since early Feb 2022. So far, I’ve replaced the hinges and upgraded to a new mainboard. (11th gen i5 to 12 gen i7 when it became my main PC).
I’ve redone the thermal paste on the 12th gen 2 times already to clean the fan out and have not had any problems opening things up. I open it up so often to tinker that the pull loop on the keyboard cable finally broke on me a few weeks ago.
My old mainboard is currently running my entire homlab. Opnsense, pihole, Plex, Kavita, audiobookshelf, foundry vtt, *arrs, unifi controller. I threw it into a 3d printed case and its been running fine without any issues.
I thought about upgrading to the fw16, but it’s too expensive for me to justify it. If I want to game I just plug into my eGPU. I don’t need my gaming system to be ultra portable.
I’ll probably upgrade again when they release a new ryzen mainboard that has USB 4 2.0 support so I can take advantage of the additional pcie bandwidth for my GPU.
I would reccomend the fw13 to anyone who is into customizing PCs or is passionate about repairability in the electronics they own.
Are you using a 3d printed enclosure for your old framework mainaboard/homelab machine?
Thanks for the reply. A few people have mentioned using your old board, when you upgrade, as a server and I like that idea a lot as it really does cut down on the waste when the parts can still serve a purpose even after you’ve upgraded.
It’s made for user reparability/upgradability and has great linux support.
Thanks.
I don’t know about the framework laptop, but about the Minecraft question:
Yes, you can absolutely run Minecraft on Linux. It runs on top of Java, so it doesn’t really see the difference between the 2 OS. In fact, I’ve found that Minecraft runs faster for me on Linux than on Windows. The only thing that might not work is the official launcher, but that can be easily replaced (with the added benefit of improved functionality). I can recommend Prism Launcher, but really anything works.
About Bedrock, that’s a different story. Microsoft revamped the PC port of Bedrock, and now calls it “Minecraft for Windows”. It’s fully compiled, and it won’t run natively on Linux. However, I still believe it can be made to work with some Wine trickery.
Thanks for focusing on the Minecraft aspect.
I do play Java so that’s a win and I’m excited to start playing again once I save up to make the purchase.
Typing this from an 11th gen intel framework right now –
I’ve upgraded a few things (namely the CNC shell, the hinges, and the speaker) and it’s pretty painless. I have some experience repairing electronics though – but not a ton – and it’s been generally pleasant. I had some issues with my batch that required more work than I think it probably should have, including an RMA at one point, but that was a few years ago and it seems most of the problems have been ironed out. You can swap out any parts you want and the compatability has been really good, both for hardware and software. You can upgrade any model with any of their components, it’s a whole ecosystem, so buy a config that’s accessible to you and upgrade it then. Everything you asked about being able to do you should be able to do no problem, there’s nothing unique to the framework computers that would stop that from being the case. If gaming is your usecase though, get an AMD machine (or get one of the new 16 inch notebooks, I have a 13 inch one which doesn’t have the space for a dedicated graphics card, so gaming performance has taken a hit accordingly). Hopefully that helps!
Thanks for the reply.
To clarify you’re saying an AMD 13 would be good for gaming or any 16?
The Framework laptops can be easily upgraded and/or repaired by just about anybody who can watch a YouTube video. It is indeed possible to buy a base model and then upgrade it later.
Keep in mind however that you can’t just replace the CPU, but you have to replace the whole mainboard. Other components can be swapped at will, like RAM, SSD, Display, camera and microphone module, hinges, … Then of course there are the modules that you can easily swap without even opening the laptop, and can give you different ports, card readers, storage or custom modules (diy projects for example).
The build quality is quite solid on my FW13, the keyboard is decent and the trackpad is quite good. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another one if the need arises…
Thanks for the reply.
My decision has been made after this post. It will be my next laptop.
You’re welcome!
I’m pretty certain you won’t regret it!
Just got my Framework in the mail today. I’ll report back soon and let you know how it is!
I am excited for you. Hope you have a great day with your new toy.
I’ve got a 13 at home and a brand new 16(?) At work. On the 13 I’ve replaced the hinge and the mouse trackpad. It’s been great and it’s running windows 11. The swappable ports are a GD GAMECHANGER I keep a set in my backpack and I can’t count how many times a swap has saved the day.
The 16 at work is way nice, and I love the custom keypad. I installed Debian on it and I struggled a bit at first getting drivers installed… but with the help of the Debian wiki and llama3 I got it sorted. I haven’t tried installing Minecraft just yet but I’m confident it would work as I’ve used Minecraft on Ubuntu before and it was fine.
I believe you can replace anything that’s not the mainboard/cpu on the 13. I believe the GPU on the 16 is upgradable which will be nice for gaming.
The only critiques I had about owning the 13 for so long is that there were lots of weird firmware glitches that have been solved over time and it’s become a very reliable, usable laptop.
Thanks for the reply.
I think I would het a 16 as they’re the ones you can have a GPU if I understand correctly.
The 16 inch model can have a GPU module installed indeed, which makes it slightly longer and heavier of course. Framework plans on releasing newer GPUs in the future, but can’t guarantee it, as it also depends on the GPU manufacturers.
Let’s hope they will be able to also provide GPU updates, which would truly make it fully upgradeable machine.
Framework 13. Had to RMA the first one I had for a battery issue. The one I currently have has a bad memory controller, so one of the ram slots periodically fails. I decided it wasn’t worth it to RMA the second one. So I’m living with a single stick of RAM.
Overall I’m impressed. It’s a good system. You can upgrade RAM, hard disk, and the motherboard/cpu combo if you want.
It’s a sturdy device, I’ve had no issues with the battery life, Wi-Fi is good. It’s a good laptop. Great compatibility with Linux and qubes
Thanks for the reply. I think the consensus here is overwhelmingly positive which is nice to see. I’ve not had one comment say anything particularly bad about them.
I did just order one to replace my MacBook, so I’m interested in hearing from others as well. The upgradability was a big plus for me beyond being able to have a mobile Linux machine for dev work.
We got plenty of replies.
I got an Intel 12th Gen laptop but wanted an AMD 7040 gen CPU. I was going to live overseas for a while so shipping laptops via air is questionable.
So I bought the 12th gen and then a year later upgraded the main board. No issues other than VeraCrypt being annoyed.
Thanks.
Really loving all the comments on how it is very upgradable.
You can upgrade literally everything on it.
They just released a new high refresh rate screen for the 13 inch. I’m seeing if it’s worth buying.
Wonder if the old display can be used as a portable monitor? I would assume so.
I could be mistaken, but I’ve used old screens from laptops before. You just need to buy an LCD (or whatever display type) controller board.
I may have missed it, but as of now, framework doesn’t offer the controller board by itself just yet.
Knowing them, it’s probably not too far away.
So you can just find these on eBay or something. I would say Amazon but fuck those guys.
You just need to check the model number for the display, then search for a board that is compatible with that.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
This YouTube video should help you udnerstand
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I’m very very lazy. Id rather have the OEM supply their own model than to get a 3rd party.
Then again I’m one of those heathens who pay for OEM camera batteries rather than wasabi power (which are amazing in their own right)
To each their own.
I like the tinkering and learning how to do things outside of OEM, even if they are amazing.