• Wanderer@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    The issue is China is producing things below cost to push out competition. That’s not good for anyone but China. They want to be supplier at the expense of everyone else.

    That legitimately a good reason to put tariffs in place.

    BUT more money should be spent on renewables also.

    • oyo@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      They already pushed everyone else out years ago. If it was truly the Amazon business model prices would have gone up. If they want to keep subsidizing the transition to clean energy we should take advantage of it.

      • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Its not that simple. Western money is going to the pockets of Chinese workers when it could be going to the pockets of western workers. The West might not even be taking advantage of it might be that they have been so naive that they have been losing money to China and investing back home could have been the cheaper option and also the option that spread up renewables globally.

        It also gives then huge leverage on things like trade and war.

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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      5 months ago

      BUT more money should be spent on renewables also.

      If the US had been subsidizing renewable to the same degree as China instead of continuing to subsidize fossil fuels, we wouldn’t be in a place to need to protect our renewable industry from their cheaper goods.

      As far as I’m concerned, the entire problem is us not spending enough on renewables, not that China has ‘undercut’ anything

    • Gigasser@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I mean aren’t we a globalized economy? There is stuff made by many countries, of whose quality and or cheapness certain countries cannot completely compete with, see Taiwan and their chip fabs, see Japanese car manufacturers. Are we going to throw a hissy fit over their stuff (yes I know we did with Japan but we don’t anymore for whatever reason).

      • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Unfair competition with the aim to destroy industries in foreign countries which disrupts industries and the workers (obviously), governments and national security. That is what we are speaking about here.

        • Gigasser@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Idk man, I’m not sure what the solution here even is, but there must be a better solution to this problem than complete autarky and or mercantilist-esque policies.

          • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            Tariffs and carbon tax. (Could also use the carbon tax to directly subsidise green investment).

            That would be the free market solution.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Imagine you were starving in the desert for weeks, finally stumble across a McDonald’s, but then go “nah, I don’t like their business decisions” and walking away…

      Climate Change is kind of a big fucking deal

      We constantly bail out industries, they can take a short term hit while they learn to compete.

      It’s better than causing long term damage to our entire fucking planet.

      Jesus dude, just listen to yourself:

      Short term profits are more important than the survival of intelligent life on Earth.

      • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        I didn’t say anything if the sort. You’re understanding of how things work is wrong.

        Imagine this. 10 factories in China that produce renewable goods for the entire world low enough that no other factories in the world can produce anything.

        Or 10 factories in China. 10 in US, 10 in Europe. All producing renewables.

        What’s better for the environment?

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Or 10 factories in China. 10 in US, 10 in Europe. All producing renewables.

          What’s better for the environment?

          If we could magically create the infrastructure from thin air you’d definitely have a point.

          But we’d have to wait years, maybe even decades to scale up

          We can start that, but we can’t wait for it to be started.

          • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            Currently there is not enough factories in china to supply the world. More needs to be built. Building them in the west doesn’t destroy the ones in China.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              So…

              You agree with me that we should let people buy Chinese products while we build up our own infrastructure?

              I’m just having trouble following you, your comments aren’t really consistent

              • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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                5 months ago

                I’m saying there needs to be demand for western products. Tariffs are a good way of doing that.

                Africa, Asia and south America can still buy Chinese goods.

                • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  But it’s not just tariffs…

                  BYD electric cars can’t even be sold in America…

                  Because they’re not expensive enough.

                  Solar panels have flipped from banned to tariffs multiple times off the whims of American industries.

                  • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Don’t you find it hypocritical to criticize support of Israel for committing genocide, while advocating support of China who is committing genocide?