They thought they were Hamas terrorists, not Palestinian civilians. Because Hamas often times disguise themselves as civilians in order to attack. Including when conducting stabbing or car ramming attacks within Israel against Israeli civilians.
That’s not what I was talking about and I do not easily dismiss the civilian casualties on either side. I would advise not taking the statistics that Hamas puts out at face value. We can talk about the number of casualties on both sides once the war is over, the dust settles and an accurate count can be made, preferably by an independent reliable source, not Hamas and probably not the IDF. It took Israel months to identify all the victims of October 7 and revised their total death count from about 1400 to 1200. In addition, it is an extremely densely populated region engaged in urban warfare against a terrorist military group (Hamas) that follows no rules whatsoever.
Hamas is a reliable source because Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
The militant wing of Hamas uses terrorist tactics. Hamas is the government of the Gaza strip. As is everyone who works for them. But the militant wing is very separate from the governmental wing. This allows the Israels to claim they killed a Hamas member and people thing they’ve killed a militant, when in reality they just murdered a garbage collector, or census taker.
The garbage collector? Hamas.
The doctors that aren’t MSF? Hamas.
The pencil pushing hospital administrator? Hamas.
Finally, since you’re a child-murder denying Israel fanatic, who should we believe? Israel’s numbers? They’re HIGHER! They just claim every child killed is Hamas.
The Gaza Health ministry knows their numbers will always be questioned, so they only release numbers for people proven to be dead.
People buried under rubble from Israels indiscriminate bombing campaign? Not counted.
Look everyone, once we’ve finished ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people and expelled almost all of them from their homeland or killed them, then we can talk about it. Maybe we’ll even make a sad movie or a scholarship or something, like the Americans do with the Native Americans. Until then, no one is allowed to criticize us. Because it’s antisemitic, and also every single Palestinian is Hamas and Hamas deserves to die. Therefore…
You are fully allowed to talk about it and criticize us, I was just suggesting not trusting stats from a terror organization. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. Hamas does deserve to die.
Not in America you’re not. You get called antisemitic. You have to sign loyalty pledges to say you don’t believe in BDS. You lose your job or get your university clubs disbanded. Although at least you don’t get arrested like saying that stuff in Israel.
And the stats from Israel can be trusted? Your government lies their ass off every chance they get. Then they kill all the UN people who enter or the journalists and use the fog of war as an excuse to genocide everyone since no one can get any information from the ground. We’re lucky people have cell phones now so we can see all the atrocities with own eyes, send that some journalists are brave enough to stay despite their family and coworkers dying.
And you guys don’t care that not all Palestinians are Hamas since you can still use the excuse that there’s a Hamas hiding behind every one of them to kill them all. That doesn’t give you the moral high ground. Even the US didn’t kill that many civilians in our last few wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, but I guess we weren’t trying to do another settler colonialism there, so we had the advantage of not trying to ethnic cleanse the local population off the land.
That’s my point. It’s not a war. It’s a slaughter. Israel is trying to make it seem like a war but when you compare the number of casualties, it’s very clearly one-sided. The side with a big military and the most advanced weapon technology vs some terrorists and civilians, no wonder.
And approaching it like a war doesn’t work, you’re just going to get more terrorists (unless the Israeli plan is actually full on genocide). The US figured that out the hard way already after 9/11,too, so I’m not saying they’re that much better or anything. You have to let people be free and then negotiate with them. No oppressed people are ever happy to stay that way. You have to fight them forever. And while that was clearly the Israel plan up to now, it seems you don’t accept the risks of a 10/7 happening every now and then. It’s a natural consequence, like the occasional slave revolt in the US pre-civil war.
That leaves two options. Israel can allow Palestinian sovereignty and equal human rights, without having the removal of Hamas as a precondition. Work together to take them out after removing normal Palestinians as an enemy by granting freedom, human rights, allowing supplies in, stop expanding in the West Bank, allow some right to return andetc. Working together as allies instead of as an occupier (the UK approach with the IRA or the South African approach). Or alternatively, full on genocide (the approach in North America and Australia), which a lot of people don’t agree with for what should be an obvious reason. Because bombing Hamas to death doesn’t work, you’re just making more terrorists, and have been since the main Zionist plan became the revisionist one of kicking people out their homes and taking their land. Either they know that and are happy with an endless war at the cost of innocent lives, or they’re planning on genocide or ethnic cleansing, or they’re naive.
No. And look, to be honest I never understood why some people claim that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. They are not, and the mortality rate of terrorist/civilians is some of the best if not the best in any modern urban war anywhere. Hamas just reports every death as civilian, and men of ages up to 21 as children. Not saying there have been no actual civilians, children and women killed in Gaza, but there is a clear intent to minimize innocent casualties, at least where I’m observing things from.
Also, a few days ago the IDF rescued 2 hostages for the first time, I hope that made international news.
And they killed the hostages thinking they were Palestinian civilians.
They thought they were Hamas terrorists, not Palestinian civilians. Because Hamas often times disguise themselves as civilians in order to attack. Including when conducting stabbing or car ramming attacks within Israel against Israeli civilians.
Someone drank a Big Gulp sized cup of Israeli propaganda Kool-Aid.
Yeah those 15,000 children the IDF murdered were all completely indiscernable from adults. Couldn’t have been avoided.
Didn’t you hear, Hamas rides single file to hide their numbers
That’s not what I was talking about and I do not easily dismiss the civilian casualties on either side. I would advise not taking the statistics that Hamas puts out at face value. We can talk about the number of casualties on both sides once the war is over, the dust settles and an accurate count can be made, preferably by an independent reliable source, not Hamas and probably not the IDF. It took Israel months to identify all the victims of October 7 and revised their total death count from about 1400 to 1200. In addition, it is an extremely densely populated region engaged in urban warfare against a terrorist military group (Hamas) that follows no rules whatsoever.
Hamas is a reliable source because Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
The militant wing of Hamas uses terrorist tactics. Hamas is the government of the Gaza strip. As is everyone who works for them. But the militant wing is very separate from the governmental wing. This allows the Israels to claim they killed a Hamas member and people thing they’ve killed a militant, when in reality they just murdered a garbage collector, or census taker.
The garbage collector? Hamas.
The doctors that aren’t MSF? Hamas.
The pencil pushing hospital administrator? Hamas.
Finally, since you’re a child-murder denying Israel fanatic, who should we believe? Israel’s numbers? They’re HIGHER! They just claim every child killed is Hamas.
The Gaza Health ministry knows their numbers will always be questioned, so they only release numbers for people proven to be dead.
People buried under rubble from Israels indiscriminate bombing campaign? Not counted.
Wow. I’m out
Look everyone, once we’ve finished ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people and expelled almost all of them from their homeland or killed them, then we can talk about it. Maybe we’ll even make a sad movie or a scholarship or something, like the Americans do with the Native Americans. Until then, no one is allowed to criticize us. Because it’s antisemitic, and also every single Palestinian is Hamas and Hamas deserves to die. Therefore…
You are fully allowed to talk about it and criticize us, I was just suggesting not trusting stats from a terror organization. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. Hamas does deserve to die.
Not in America you’re not. You get called antisemitic. You have to sign loyalty pledges to say you don’t believe in BDS. You lose your job or get your university clubs disbanded. Although at least you don’t get arrested like saying that stuff in Israel.
And the stats from Israel can be trusted? Your government lies their ass off every chance they get. Then they kill all the UN people who enter or the journalists and use the fog of war as an excuse to genocide everyone since no one can get any information from the ground. We’re lucky people have cell phones now so we can see all the atrocities with own eyes, send that some journalists are brave enough to stay despite their family and coworkers dying.
And you guys don’t care that not all Palestinians are Hamas since you can still use the excuse that there’s a Hamas hiding behind every one of them to kill them all. That doesn’t give you the moral high ground. Even the US didn’t kill that many civilians in our last few wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, but I guess we weren’t trying to do another settler colonialism there, so we had the advantage of not trying to ethnic cleanse the local population off the land.
Yep. Ok. America is the best at war. Good luck to you.
That’s my point. It’s not a war. It’s a slaughter. Israel is trying to make it seem like a war but when you compare the number of casualties, it’s very clearly one-sided. The side with a big military and the most advanced weapon technology vs some terrorists and civilians, no wonder.
And approaching it like a war doesn’t work, you’re just going to get more terrorists (unless the Israeli plan is actually full on genocide). The US figured that out the hard way already after 9/11,too, so I’m not saying they’re that much better or anything. You have to let people be free and then negotiate with them. No oppressed people are ever happy to stay that way. You have to fight them forever. And while that was clearly the Israel plan up to now, it seems you don’t accept the risks of a 10/7 happening every now and then. It’s a natural consequence, like the occasional slave revolt in the US pre-civil war.
That leaves two options. Israel can allow Palestinian sovereignty and equal human rights, without having the removal of Hamas as a precondition. Work together to take them out after removing normal Palestinians as an enemy by granting freedom, human rights, allowing supplies in, stop expanding in the West Bank, allow some right to return andetc. Working together as allies instead of as an occupier (the UK approach with the IRA or the South African approach). Or alternatively, full on genocide (the approach in North America and Australia), which a lot of people don’t agree with for what should be an obvious reason. Because bombing Hamas to death doesn’t work, you’re just making more terrorists, and have been since the main Zionist plan became the revisionist one of kicking people out their homes and taking their land. Either they know that and are happy with an endless war at the cost of innocent lives, or they’re planning on genocide or ethnic cleansing, or they’re naive.
That argument provides “justification” to kill any civilian.
Your words not mine.
Are you fine with allowing them to set the bar that low though?
No. And look, to be honest I never understood why some people claim that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. They are not, and the mortality rate of terrorist/civilians is some of the best if not the best in any modern urban war anywhere. Hamas just reports every death as civilian, and men of ages up to 21 as children. Not saying there have been no actual civilians, children and women killed in Gaza, but there is a clear intent to minimize innocent casualties, at least where I’m observing things from.
Also, a few days ago the IDF rescued 2 hostages for the first time, I hope that made international news.