It’s a pejorative term to describe authoritarian Chinese government apologists. Historically it was used to describe communist members that defended the use of tanks against civilians during a Hungary uprising.
You can only have one or the other, not both, since they are inherently incompatible. People calling themselves communists, doesn’t mean that’s what they are.
I think theoretically communism requires a society with no state, but I think historically a vanguard party has come in and said “yeah we will do bureaucracy for a while and then dissolve the state” aaaaaand now you have a dictator and stazi and gestapo and thought crimes and a gulag. Oops 😋
So… You’re describing how they blatantly didn’t practice communism to… defend the continued use of the word to define them?
I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making… 🙄🤦♀️
(to be clear: trying to achieve communism, and actually doing it are very different things, and if you end up with an authoritarian regime, you’ve not achieved communism, no matter what you call it, it really isn’t complicated)
Only if you’re the kind who would argue that Hitler was a socialist, or that the CCP is communist.
Communism and socialism aren’t vague nebulous concepts, they are very well defined, and those definitions are, as stated above, inherently incompatible with tankies’ actions (or at least the actions they support and stand for), never mind that co-opting leftist language and ideas is a well known and documented tactic the right use to manipulate people in to supporting them, before they drop the mask to reveal their true authoritarian bigoted selves (ETA: even if a dictator started out meaning well, once they become a dictator, they’ve abandoned communism).
But sure, name an unrelated fallacy instead of thinking for yourself, that’s sure to end well… 🙄
Don’t feel too bad, at least you got to feel like you “got me” there for a millisecond!
(pasting this edit here too, to be clear: trying to achieve communism, and actually doing it are very different things, and if you end up with an authoritarian regime, you’ve not achieved communism, no matter what you call it, it really isn’t complicated)
How so? Communism ultimately describes a society where power is spread amongst the people, while authoritarianism describes a system where power is concentrated at the top. What could possibly be communist about an authoritarian regime?
Look at Indonesia in 1965–66 to see what happens to peaceful communists. Or Chile in 73. They’re rounded up and slaughtered by US-backed fascists. The reason ML theory prescribes a period of authoritarianism is to defend against this.
But power being spread among the people doesn’t mean there’s no rules or organisation, just because you work in a communist run flour mill doesn’t mean you can piss in the flour.
So we get into structure issues, we can all vote on if pissing in the flour should be allowed and what the punishment should be for doing it - this is the difference between communism and anarchy, literally living without a ruler Vs living in commune under shared values.
We dont all want to spend all day voting on what we can piss on so we could theoretically vote for a representative we like to do that for us - if all the local villages did that the representatives could all get together and debate and vote somewhere but to stop everyone talking over each other you’d want a secretary so they could vote for one and if the secretaries all got together for a regional or national meeting they would want a secretary too…
It would be natural to expect these people to act in the best interest of the people without ruining and asking everyone to vote on every little thing but of course they’re not going to be acting in the best interests of the flour pissers - from the flour pissers perspective if the top secretary passes a bill to say no flour pissing then they’re a big bad authoritarian.
(And don’t confuse dictator with authoritarian, they’re not synonyms)
That’s entirely secondary to whether people get called communists. If everyone calls them communists, including themselves, it’s ultimately futile to try to call them anything else.
This kind of parsing is dangerous and its how bad actors are able to infiltrate and get into power. Yes totalitarian communists didnt practice it in their true form and were totalitarian dictatorships, but its dangerous to pretend like they didnt sprout organically from a communist movement, and didnt identify and define communism for decades.
Stalin wasnt a nazi no matter how much he fits the bill more and it’s important to recognize them in your ranks clawing for power and waiting to take advantage of good will.
“Tankie” is a term that was originally coined (ironically, by Marxist-Leninists themselves) to describe members of the CPGB (Communist Party of Great Britain) who justified the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956. It has since become a catch-all term used to describe (self-described) leftists that slavishly adhere to the propaganda of or justify the actions of authoritarian regimes that are (or are perceived to be) “socialist” such as China or (bizarrely enough) modern-day Russia.
I strongly encourage you to read this article from a mainstream Jewish holocaust scholar on why equating “tankies” and fascists carries water for the holocaust
The key requirment is authoritarianism, especially now. Being left has little to do with it anymore. When you defend modern Russia, you aren’t left. It’s a fantasy about former communist authoritarian countries with little to no regard for modern reality.
US citizens are under far more governmental surveillance than any other country in the world, past or present.
the presidential cabinet is analogous to several “authoritarian regimes”.
The US has “plainclothes police officers”, analogous to what the US calls secret police in other nations.
the US police force kills on average 1000 people extrajudicially every year. That’s at least 3 people per day. Since 2019, more people have been killed by police than there were deaths during 9/11.
there are more people in prison now than there were in gulags at their height under Stalin.
I’m an anarcho-syndicalist. I’ve been called a tankie for milquetoast leftist opinions. It’s far more common than you think for liberals to brand anything left of capitalism “tankie”.
What is a Tanky?
It’s a pejorative term to describe authoritarian Chinese government apologists. Historically it was used to describe communist members that defended the use of tanks against civilians during a Hungary uprising.
TIL. Thank you.
Authoritarian communists.
You can only have one or the other, not both, since they are inherently incompatible. People calling themselves communists, doesn’t mean that’s what they are.
I think theoretically communism requires a society with no state, but I think historically a vanguard party has come in and said “yeah we will do bureaucracy for a while and then dissolve the state” aaaaaand now you have a dictator and stazi and gestapo and thought crimes and a gulag. Oops 😋
So… You’re describing how they blatantly didn’t practice communism to… defend the continued use of the word to define them?
I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making… 🙄🤦♀️
(to be clear: trying to achieve communism, and actually doing it are very different things, and if you end up with an authoritarian regime, you’ve not achieved communism, no matter what you call it, it really isn’t complicated)
Thanks for the clarification, yeah I agree
Bit of a no true scotsman discussion.
Only if you’re the kind who would argue that Hitler was a socialist, or that the CCP is communist.
Communism and socialism aren’t vague nebulous concepts, they are very well defined, and those definitions are, as stated above, inherently incompatible with tankies’ actions (or at least the actions they support and stand for), never mind that co-opting leftist language and ideas is a well known and documented tactic the right use to manipulate people in to supporting them, before they drop the mask to reveal their true authoritarian bigoted selves (ETA: even if a dictator started out meaning well, once they become a dictator, they’ve abandoned communism).
But sure, name an unrelated fallacy instead of thinking for yourself, that’s sure to end well… 🙄
Don’t feel too bad, at least you got to feel like you “got me” there for a millisecond!
(pasting this edit here too, to be clear: trying to achieve communism, and actually doing it are very different things, and if you end up with an authoritarian regime, you’ve not achieved communism, no matter what you call it, it really isn’t complicated)
How so? Communism ultimately describes a society where power is spread amongst the people, while authoritarianism describes a system where power is concentrated at the top. What could possibly be communist about an authoritarian regime?
Look at Indonesia in 1965–66 to see what happens to peaceful communists. Or Chile in 73. They’re rounded up and slaughtered by US-backed fascists. The reason ML theory prescribes a period of authoritarianism is to defend against this.
But power being spread among the people doesn’t mean there’s no rules or organisation, just because you work in a communist run flour mill doesn’t mean you can piss in the flour.
So we get into structure issues, we can all vote on if pissing in the flour should be allowed and what the punishment should be for doing it - this is the difference between communism and anarchy, literally living without a ruler Vs living in commune under shared values.
We dont all want to spend all day voting on what we can piss on so we could theoretically vote for a representative we like to do that for us - if all the local villages did that the representatives could all get together and debate and vote somewhere but to stop everyone talking over each other you’d want a secretary so they could vote for one and if the secretaries all got together for a regional or national meeting they would want a secretary too…
It would be natural to expect these people to act in the best interest of the people without ruining and asking everyone to vote on every little thing but of course they’re not going to be acting in the best interests of the flour pissers - from the flour pissers perspective if the top secretary passes a bill to say no flour pissing then they’re a big bad authoritarian.
(And don’t confuse dictator with authoritarian, they’re not synonyms)
That’s entirely secondary to whether people get called communists. If everyone calls them communists, including themselves, it’s ultimately futile to try to call them anything else.
North Korea calls itself democratic, does that make it so? No.
I too believe that anarcho-monarchism is valid and not at all contradictory
This kind of parsing is dangerous and its how bad actors are able to infiltrate and get into power. Yes totalitarian communists didnt practice it in their true form and were totalitarian dictatorships, but its dangerous to pretend like they didnt sprout organically from a communist movement, and didnt identify and define communism for decades.
Stalin wasnt a nazi no matter how much he fits the bill more and it’s important to recognize them in your ranks clawing for power and waiting to take advantage of good will.
Anyone to the left of you
That’s impossible, I shoved all those counter-revolutionaries into a ditch and ran them over with t-
Uh oh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
“Tankie” is a term that was originally coined (ironically, by Marxist-Leninists themselves) to describe members of the CPGB (Communist Party of Great Britain) who justified the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956. It has since become a catch-all term used to describe (self-described) leftists that slavishly adhere to the propaganda of or justify the actions of authoritarian regimes that are (or are perceived to be) “socialist” such as China or (bizarrely enough) modern-day Russia.
they’re communist scum, wannabe terrorists
Tankies are not Communists, they’re authoritarian fascists. About as communist as North Korea is democratic.
I strongly encourage you to read this article from a mainstream Jewish holocaust scholar on why equating “tankies” and fascists carries water for the holocaust
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
we’ve got ourselves a tankie here
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The key requirment is authoritarianism, especially now. Being left has little to do with it anymore. When you defend modern Russia, you aren’t left. It’s a fantasy about former communist authoritarian countries with little to no regard for modern reality.
I’m aware, but authoritarianism isn’t useful either. The US, Britain, Russia, Mozambique, and the USSR are all authoritarian states.
nah, USA good. tankie bad
Just in case you’re serious:
goddamn tankie
lmao that’s cute. Call names instead of engaging with the content, because you know it’s correct.
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I’m an anarcho-syndicalist. I’ve been called a tankie for milquetoast leftist opinions. It’s far more common than you think for liberals to brand anything left of capitalism “tankie”.
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