I agree again. I want them to be held accountable for everything they do.
But what to do when the powerful won’t move, because they live even more comfortable and save then us? It’s classic prisoner’s dilemma and I argue in favor of doing what is right, not what others should do first. And it’s not even a sacrifice:
If you dare to look at each of the animal industries production chains it’s plain evil from start to finish. It needs to be shut down fast. And it takes very little effort to change your diet. Quitting meat, going plant-based, is nothing more than a slight inconvenience. Again, I know this alone won’t save us, but it would have a huge impact on our planet AND our health. It’s the easiest Fuck You! you can send, no need to get off of the sofa, no need to protest, no need to riot. You just vote with your receipt at the supermarket, capitalism-style. It’s an easy step to live up to your convictions and switch off one part of this global suicide machine we’re running.
I’m gonna make a second comment here because I think it helps to keep separate discussions in separate threads.
It’s classic prisoner’s dilemma and I argue in favor of doing what is right, not what others should do first.
This is not the situation we are in, and it’s not what you are doing. You are arguing what everyone else should do first before the powerful can be demanded to change too. You aren’t even arguing for both changing at the same time, you are saying “before you aren’t holy you can’t demand betterment from anyone else”. Which is just illogical to me. A chainsmoker can tell me that smoking is bad and I should stop and they would be right. No need for them to stop smoking first.
And it’s not even a sacrifice:
If you dare to look at each of the animal industries production chains it’s plain evil from start to finish. It needs to be shut down fast. And it takes very little effort to change your diet. Quitting meat, going plant-based, is nothing more than a slight inconvenience.
I think this is not true. It is for you, because you see the animal industries as inherently evil. You have to acknowledge that for many people food is a big part of what defines their culture and for many cultures that includes meat. You don’t have to like that fact, I certainly dont like it. And I agree that this has to change. But I don’t think that any moral argument about cruelty against animals is going to bring that change.
I think it is fair for me to demand people change their habits and culture because the status quo is hurting me. I want to make clear what I mean with a thought experiment. Let’s assume we bioengineered a cow that doesn’t produce methan, and does photosynthesis so no food is required. The climate impact of mass-breeding this type of cow would be neglectable.
I wouldn’t go out and tell people they should stop eating this type of cow. Not being a part of the cruel animal industry chain as a consumer is a choice anyone can make that doesn’t affect anyone else and vice versa it’s still true. You are hurting the cows and we should talk about that and make it public but I’d be in favor of people still being able to choose to eat that.
Mixing the altruistic arguments against animal abuse with climate protection doesn’t help convince anyone to do this. The debate about becoming vegetarian/vegan for moral reasons is way older than the one because of climate change. The ones who where conviced by it already stopped eating animal products and the rest wont suddenly stop now because of those reasons. It might even be counterproductive, because it ties climate protection to an altruistic motivation where that isn’t necessary. People can and should be interested in preventing climate change for very selfish reasons, which in my experience, is a way stronger motivator.
I agree again. I want them to be held accountable for everything they do.
But what to do when the powerful won’t move, because they live even more comfortable and save then us? It’s classic prisoner’s dilemma and I argue in favor of doing what is right, not what others should do first. And it’s not even a sacrifice:
If you dare to look at each of the animal industries production chains it’s plain evil from start to finish. It needs to be shut down fast. And it takes very little effort to change your diet. Quitting meat, going plant-based, is nothing more than a slight inconvenience. Again, I know this alone won’t save us, but it would have a huge impact on our planet AND our health. It’s the easiest Fuck You! you can send, no need to get off of the sofa, no need to protest, no need to riot. You just vote with your receipt at the supermarket, capitalism-style. It’s an easy step to live up to your convictions and switch off one part of this global suicide machine we’re running.
I’m gonna make a second comment here because I think it helps to keep separate discussions in separate threads.
This is not the situation we are in, and it’s not what you are doing. You are arguing what everyone else should do first before the powerful can be demanded to change too. You aren’t even arguing for both changing at the same time, you are saying “before you aren’t holy you can’t demand betterment from anyone else”. Which is just illogical to me. A chainsmoker can tell me that smoking is bad and I should stop and they would be right. No need for them to stop smoking first.
I think this is not true. It is for you, because you see the animal industries as inherently evil. You have to acknowledge that for many people food is a big part of what defines their culture and for many cultures that includes meat. You don’t have to like that fact, I certainly dont like it. And I agree that this has to change. But I don’t think that any moral argument about cruelty against animals is going to bring that change.
I think it is fair for me to demand people change their habits and culture because the status quo is hurting me. I want to make clear what I mean with a thought experiment. Let’s assume we bioengineered a cow that doesn’t produce methan, and does photosynthesis so no food is required. The climate impact of mass-breeding this type of cow would be neglectable.
I wouldn’t go out and tell people they should stop eating this type of cow. Not being a part of the cruel animal industry chain as a consumer is a choice anyone can make that doesn’t affect anyone else and vice versa it’s still true. You are hurting the cows and we should talk about that and make it public but I’d be in favor of people still being able to choose to eat that.
Mixing the altruistic arguments against animal abuse with climate protection doesn’t help convince anyone to do this. The debate about becoming vegetarian/vegan for moral reasons is way older than the one because of climate change. The ones who where conviced by it already stopped eating animal products and the rest wont suddenly stop now because of those reasons. It might even be counterproductive, because it ties climate protection to an altruistic motivation where that isn’t necessary. People can and should be interested in preventing climate change for very selfish reasons, which in my experience, is a way stronger motivator.