• TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    23
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    It’s because Google is using their market dominance to essentially force OEMs to do what Google wants them to do.

    You can’t have a successful Android device without the Play store, or access to any Google apps. Shit, for lots of apps, they will be straight up broken without Play Services installed, or notifications won’t work.

    The market reality is that you have to have the play store. Google knows this, so they attach all kinds of extra requirements on OEMs to push Google services and tracking.

    Apple doesn’t do this. Yes, Apple’s system is more locked down than Google’s (by far), but Apple is not using their market position to force anything on anybody or any OEM. Google is. Apple has not forced Samsung, OnePlus, Motorola, Sony, etc to do anything. They are only doing things of their own accord, on their own devices.

    What Apple is doing is the same as what the games consoles do. You buy a Sony console, it has Sony software, Sony’s storefront, Sony-sanctioned games. It’s an ecosystem they’re putting on their own product, as opposed to Google strong-arming other companies into pushing Google’s ecosystem, because Google knows they have no realistic alternative. That’s why one is abuse of market dominance and the other isn’t.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      You can’t have a successful Android device without the Play store

      And you can’t have a device with the Apple Store at all.

      Apple is not using their market position to force anything on anybody or any OEM. Google is.

      You can’t claim that Google is more anti-competitive because they try to control how others use their OS when Apple doesn’t even let anyone else do that, and they still maintain a near-majority market-share in the US.

      it has Sony software, Sony’s storefront, Sony-sanctioned games…as opposed to Google strong-arming other companies into pushing Google’s ecosystem

      Damn Google, and their anti-competitive letting-competitors-use-their-software!

          • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 month ago

            Repeating my own comment back to me in a way that doesn’t even make sense doesn’t make you witty, it makes you look like someone who doesn’t know how to interract with people like an adult.

            You never addressed my comment at all. Apple isn’t abusing their dominant market position by putting what they want on their own phones.

            Google is abusing their market position by forcing other OEMs to do what Google wants, knowing they have no other choice.

            Do you understand now?

            If you want Apple to be punished, write some new laws, because they aren’t breaking the one Google is.

            • helenslunch@feddit.nl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 month ago

              Writing a comment that conveys absolutely nothing doesn’t make you witty, it makes you look like you have nothing to say to defend your position. Repeating it back is an attempt to illustrate that to you.

              You never addressed my comment at all.

              I clearly did. You, on the other hand, did not address my response.

              Apple is not using their market position to force anything on anybody or any OEM

              Apple isn’t abusing their dominant market position by putting what they want on their own phones.

              They’re abusing their market position by disallowing any software that’s not distributed according to Apple’s demands and forcing them to pay their exorbitant Apple tax for the great honor of distributing software on their platform. This unnecessarily drives up the costs for consumers and developers in order to further line Apple’s pockets.

              I honestly don’t know any way to explain this other than the way I already have: You can’t call Google anti-competitive for trying to control the way they deal with alternative app stores, and then claim Apple does nothing wrong when they don’t even allow other app stores in the first place? Like, I just don’t understand how that computes in your brain…

              You can’t have a successful Android device without the Play store,

              You literally can’t have a device at all with the Apple Store…

              The fact that Google is getting punished and Apple is not is not just hypocritical but also motivates other businesses to emulate Apple’s “walled garden” ideology.

              they aren’t breaking the one Google is.

              They’re breaking the exact same ones, in regards to how software is distributed in their ecosystem.

              Do you understand now?

              • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 month ago

                I really don’t know how you aren’t grasping this.

                Apple isn’t forcing anybody to do anything, because they make their own device. (iPhones are made by Apple).

                Google is forcing OEMs to do all sorts of things, because they have no choice but to use Android/the play store. (Other phones, e.g. Samsung’s Galaxy S series, aren’t made by Google).

                Do you understand? I’m not sure I can make this any more simple. What’s going on in your head that’s not letting you understand this?

                • helenslunch@feddit.nl
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 month ago

                  I really don’t know how you aren’t grasping this.

                  Apple isn’t forcing anybody to do anything

                  They are, and I’ve already explained how they are, several times. Come on, man, my comment isn’t that long. Just read it.

                  because they have no choice but to use Android/the play store

                  They have no choice because Apple does not make iOS/Apple Store available to anyone else…

                  If Google did what Apple did (or did not in this case), those other OEMs would have zero choices and wouldn’t even exist

                  Google is creating competition for themselves, where Apple refuses to even engage.

                  Do you understand? I’m not sure I can make this any more simple. What’s going on in your head that’s not letting you understand this?

                  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 month ago

                    They are, and I’ve already explained how they are, several times.

                    And you were wrong.

                    They have no choice because Apple does not make iOS/Apple Store available to anyone else…

                    People and companies are not compelled to open source their software. Apple doesn’t have to open source iOS or offer it on other devices if they don’t want to. Same goes for Sony/Xbox/Nintendo.

                    If I code a game, it’s not illegal for me to keep the source code to myself.

                    If Google did what Apple did (or did not in this case), those other OEMs would have zero choices and wouldn’t even exist

                    No, if Google had done what Apple did, nobody would’ve flocked to Android in the first place, and we’d have more competition. Do you think there were no phone makers before Android or something?

                    It’s incredible how you still don’t get it despite me very clearly explaining it multiple times.

                    Apple. Is. Not. Imposing. Terms. On. Phonemakers.

                    Google is. Because their dominant market position allows them to.

                    If Google did this only for their own Pixel line, it would be fine.

    • Soup@lemmy.cafe
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 month ago

      There’s that nuance again. Seems to not be very popular around here. Good point though. Well said.

    • mycodesucks@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 month ago

      This is the clearest and most sensible explanation of the situation, but I’m still not sure what’s meant by “opening the app store”. The reality is apps can be sideloaded and distributed freely on Android, even unrooted. Sure, Google requires OEMs to push Google services and tracking, and that’s evil and horrible and nasty, but do they actually force that onto app developers as well?

      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 month ago

        Perhaps they mean allowing android OEMs to ship with the play store without having to agree to all the other Google requirements.

        • mycodesucks@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          Edit: Sorry! I misread your comment at first. Yeah, now that you say that, that makes the most sense.

          But from the standpoint of anti-competitivity and Android vs iOS with Apple…

          One’s behavior is denying access to their app store without agreeing to a set of device restrictions, but everything on the app store is available without the app store at developer discretion.

          The other is an app store which MUST be installed, and is in fact the ONLY way to get software for the device.

          One is CLEARLY more anti-competitive than the other, and yet the one that’s LESS problematic is the one that gets court action. It’s a joke.