Israel's dropping of massive bombs on residential buildings in Beirut sparked a fresh wave of
global condemnation against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Firstly, being the second one to commit a war crime does not make the act of doing so any less heinous.
Secondly, do you have any actual evidence you’re basing that on, or is it just Israel’s word you’re taking? Because we know for a fact that Israel bombed civilians, and as far as I’ve seen, it’s just hearsay that they were targeting actual Hezbollah members. On the other hand, we do know for fact that they’ve used this justification falsely before, so I’m disinclined to believe anything they say, frankly.
Secondly, do you have any actual evidence you’re basing that on, or is it just Israel’s word you’re taking?
I mean, high ranking Hezbollah members do keep dying in these strikes, possibly including Nasrallah in this latest one. Sure Israel are still dicks for accepting the levels of civilian casualties that come along with it but the strikes do seem to be hitting actual targets.
Being detered by human shields means that more human shields are used. It’s the same logic as refusing to pay ransom for kidnappers. The opposite would just encourage more kidnappings.
It’s literally terrorist 101 to use human shields. This tactic has been used by every insurgency in the last hundred years.
It’s why it was added as a war crime.
As for the second one to commit a war crime. If you follow the rules, but your enemy doesn’t, you will lose. This is the international equivalent of the bunch buggy no punch back bullshit that let’s people hit you with no retaliation.
The leader of Hezbollah was confirmed dead in the attack, so clearly they were using human shields… They have been attacking Israel from a foreign country, and are not part of that countries military, which makes them terrorists.
You don’t like the truth, but lying about it doesnt change the facts of the matter.
Yes? I’ve never claimed they aren’t bad. The US does it too, along with pretty much every country who goes to war because international law and the rules of war are bullshit.
This should be fun. Where uh… Where’s the US policy on using human shields?
The “everybody does it” argument is complete bullshit, but I’d love to see your evidence that the US routinely and as a matter of standard procedure uses human shields.
Well, it’s asymmetrical warfare. It works like that. You want everyone to line up in straight lines across a football field and take turns firing?
I purpose we have all the world’s nations choose one competitive video game, and then everyone develops their gaming team, then all potential military disputes are settled by a best of five match of the chosen game.
That’s what so many are unwilling to aknowledge. Civilian deaths are only issue for the western nations. Not to these extremists. Being martyred lands them into heaven. Not only is this a non-issue for them but it’s actually a good thing. They get to heaven and western media will slam Israel for it. Win-win.
Not willing to, but having to because there’s a terrorist HQ / ammunation storage in the basement or a missile launcher on the school / mosque / hospital yard that they themselves didn’t agree to.
Man you go from “that apartment and all people inside were terrorists” to “oh the civilians actually also hate these terrorists” real quick. The line between civilian or terrorist is whatever you want.
Attacking me personally (ad hominem) for a view I don’t even hold isn’t an argument against what I’m actually saying. I don’t know what you imagine you’re achieving with this inflammatory style of commenting and strawmanning your opponent’s arguments.
Because I do not take your arguments in good faith because I do not discuss the justifications of genocide. Your argument is evil and I mean it in the purest sense I can muster. I consider you an evil person for actively holding and defending evil ideas of genocide. I do not respect evil people. There is discussion to be had on the topic but not with people like you.
your comment will be downvoted coz lemmy is full of left wingers who prefers to instill their lame ass rhetorics than see the fact that it was hamas and their asswipe cronies that handed israel the reason on a silver platter.
lets not forget,these hamas terrorist supporters had no qualms using civilians as shields,israel just decided to even the playong field.
Dehumanization refers to the act of perceiving victimized subgroups as not completely human. Psychologists distinguish between two types of non-humanness: one that denies uniquely human attributes to others by comparing them to animals
“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly"
Yoav Gallant Minister of Defense
“Those are animals, they have no right to exist. I am not debating they way it will happen, but
they need to be exterminated”.
Uh… The literally nothing will happen because there’s nobody to fight for Palestinian freedom. You do realize there’s a reason resistance organizations exist, right?
“This is the only story of mine whose moral I know,” writes Kurt Vonnegut at the beginning of his 1962 novel Mother Night. “I don’t think it’s a marvelous moral; I simply happen to know what it is: We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
Stop pushing this BS to justify Israel’s Genocide. On the subject of Human Shields, there are some independent reports for past conflicts of Hamas jeopardizing the safety of civilians via Rocket fire in dense urban areas, two instances during Oct 7th, but no independent verification since then so far. None of which absolve Israel of the crime of targeting civilians under international law:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
No surprise you deflect and lie about my position. I’m an advocate for equal rights. Take your own advice and recognize that the hundreds of thousands dead at the hands of Israel are human beings just like you and me.
Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place. Israel has been the only one to reject the UN Resolution 3-Stage Permanent Ceasefire put forth by the US.
Quote
During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.
Before that, both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, because it is a Settler Colonialist Ethnostate founded on, and ever continuing, ethnic cleansing
Settlements
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
State violence – official and otherwise – is part and parcel of Israel’s apartheid regime, which aims to create a Jewish-only space between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. The regime treats land as a resource designed to serve the Jewish public, and accordingly uses it almost exclusively to develop and expand existing Jewish residential communities and to build new ones. At the same time, the regime fragments Palestinian space, dispossesses Palestinians of their land and relegates them to living in small, over-populated enclaves.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
Hamas officials should be held accountable for all war crimes committed, same as all Israeli officials. That said, there are many parallels between the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and Gaza.
Residential buildings that Hezbollah intentionally set up a headquarters in the basement of.
Thats already a war crime by Hezbollah.
Firstly, being the second one to commit a war crime does not make the act of doing so any less heinous.
Secondly, do you have any actual evidence you’re basing that on, or is it just Israel’s word you’re taking? Because we know for a fact that Israel bombed civilians, and as far as I’ve seen, it’s just hearsay that they were targeting actual Hezbollah members. On the other hand, we do know for fact that they’ve used this justification falsely before, so I’m disinclined to believe anything they say, frankly.
You want evidence?? Are you some kind of antisemite?? /s
I mean, high ranking Hezbollah members do keep dying in these strikes, possibly including Nasrallah in this latest one. Sure Israel are still dicks for accepting the levels of civilian casualties that come along with it but the strikes do seem to be hitting actual targets.
The targets (so far):
In addition to the entire genocide still going on in Gaza and ramping up in the West Bank
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/28/israel-hezbollah-war-gaza-hamas-latest-news/
Actual evidence.
:::
Being detered by human shields means that more human shields are used. It’s the same logic as refusing to pay ransom for kidnappers. The opposite would just encourage more kidnappings.
It’s literally terrorist 101 to use human shields. This tactic has been used by every insurgency in the last hundred years.
It’s why it was added as a war crime.
As for the second one to commit a war crime. If you follow the rules, but your enemy doesn’t, you will lose. This is the international equivalent of the bunch buggy no punch back bullshit that let’s people hit you with no retaliation.
Repeating the same lies “human shields” and “terrorist” doesn’t make it true.
The leader of Hezbollah was confirmed dead in the attack, so clearly they were using human shields… They have been attacking Israel from a foreign country, and are not part of that countries military, which makes them terrorists.
You don’t like the truth, but lying about it doesnt change the facts of the matter.
It makes them a paramilitary organization. They’re fulfilling their duty under international law to stop genocide.
They’re committing war crimes constantly. Attacking civilians and using human shields by building their bases in residential buildings.
They aren’t fulfilling any sort of duty.
What about repeating the Truth? Because that’s what he’s actually doing.
The IDF uses Palestinians as human shields.
There are literal videos of this.
Unfortunately it’s not the IDF’s job to protect Palestinians. Don’t know 'bout Hezollah.
It’s the IDF job not to commit war crimes.
So Isrealis are terrorists? We have actual video of them using human shields.
Yes? I’ve never claimed they aren’t bad. The US does it too, along with pretty much every country who goes to war because international law and the rules of war are bullshit.
There are no rules in war other than “win”
This should be fun. Where uh… Where’s the US policy on using human shields?
The “everybody does it” argument is complete bullshit, but I’d love to see your evidence that the US routinely and as a matter of standard procedure uses human shields.
Well, it’s asymmetrical warfare. It works like that. You want everyone to line up in straight lines across a football field and take turns firing?
I purpose we have all the world’s nations choose one competitive video game, and then everyone develops their gaming team, then all potential military disputes are settled by a best of five match of the chosen game.
No wallhax.
Yes it does work like that, and bombing them anyways is the counter.
Would be nice if we had an easier way to solve problems, but it’s not realistic.
Fucks sake, this again?
Benny just can’t help him.
That’s what so many are unwilling to aknowledge. Civilian deaths are only issue for the western nations. Not to these extremists. Being martyred lands them into heaven. Not only is this a non-issue for them but it’s actually a good thing. They get to heaven and western media will slam Israel for it. Win-win.
Oh no, people are willing to die for their homes? Craaaaaazy.
Not willing to, but having to because there’s a terrorist HQ / ammunation storage in the basement or a missile launcher on the school / mosque / hospital yard that they themselves didn’t agree to.
Man you go from “that apartment and all people inside were terrorists” to “oh the civilians actually also hate these terrorists” real quick. The line between civilian or terrorist is whatever you want.
At no point has anyone claimed it’s only been terrorists in those buildings.
Just cool with targeting civilians then. Damn. Normally y’all genocidal freaks like to do a little double talk to avoid saying it.
Attacking me personally (ad hominem) for a view I don’t even hold isn’t an argument against what I’m actually saying. I don’t know what you imagine you’re achieving with this inflammatory style of commenting and strawmanning your opponent’s arguments.
Because I do not take your arguments in good faith because I do not discuss the justifications of genocide. Your argument is evil and I mean it in the purest sense I can muster. I consider you an evil person for actively holding and defending evil ideas of genocide. I do not respect evil people. There is discussion to be had on the topic but not with people like you.
your comment will be downvoted coz lemmy is full of left wingers who prefers to instill their lame ass rhetorics than see the fact that it was hamas and their asswipe cronies that handed israel the reason on a silver platter.
lets not forget,these hamas terrorist supporters had no qualms using civilians as shields,israel just decided to even the playong field.
You don’t think they’re well past evening the playing field by now?
It’s not about winning the fight, it’s about ensuring they are never considered a viable target again.
israel lost the plot,that much is certain.
as of now,hamas handed israel the golden key and israel will not hesitate to use it to the fullest.
genocide or not,until hamas is exterminated,israel will not face any consequences for their actions.
At what point should they have consequences? They can’t keep bombing civilians without consequence
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Sounds familiar
Yoav Kisch Minister of Education
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide
still not changing my mind nor stance.
end hamas,then you can come highlighting how bad israel is.
Hamas only ends when the Apartheid and Occupation end, Hamas only exists because of the occupation
Uh… The literally nothing will happen because there’s nobody to fight for Palestinian freedom. You do realize there’s a reason resistance organizations exist, right?
If the only thing stopping you from doing war crimes is a reason then your a scumbag.
Grammer Nazi. Gottem
sieg heil.
“This is the only story of mine whose moral I know,” writes Kurt Vonnegut at the beginning of his 1962 novel Mother Night. “I don’t think it’s a marvelous moral; I simply happen to know what it is: We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
heil.
Stop pushing this BS to justify Israel’s Genocide. On the subject of Human Shields, there are some independent reports for past conflicts of Hamas jeopardizing the safety of civilians via Rocket fire in dense urban areas, two instances during Oct 7th, but no independent verification since then so far. None of which absolve Israel of the crime of targeting civilians under international law:
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza - July 2014
HRW - Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel
Israel/OPT: Israeli attacks targeting Hamas and other armed group fighters that killed scores of displaced civilians in Rafah should be investigated as war crimes
HRW - Gaza: Unlawful Israeli Hospital Strikes Worsen Health Crisis
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields: IDF uses Human Shields, including Children (2013 Report), and in the latest war Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds
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Opens your mouth but ain’t prepared to deal with gasp evidence…?
Facts, not feelings, and the fact of the matter is you are a genocidal person.
don’t care and even if i was genocidal,what can you do?
No surprise you deflect and lie about my position. I’m an advocate for equal rights. Take your own advice and recognize that the hundreds of thousands dead at the hands of Israel are human beings just like you and me.
Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place. Israel has been the only one to reject the UN Resolution 3-Stage Permanent Ceasefire put forth by the US.
Quote
Before that, both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, because it is a Settler Colonialist Ethnostate founded on, and ever continuing, ethnic cleansing
Settlements
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
One or Two State Solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas officials should be held accountable for all war crimes committed, same as all Israeli officials. That said, there are many parallels between the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and Gaza.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
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false equivalence…but if that’s what you believe,fuck if I care.