goddamn man it’s actually so fucking stupid to be fearful of Russia in Finland.
Yes, Russia, the state still grinding it out in Ukraine 2 years down the line, is suddenly going to invade Finland and trigger a war with the entire western world so they can uhhhhh steal Finland’s lovely lakes. You piss me off
Finland has been in NATO for less than a year. Before that we had a war in which USSR tried to take over the whole country and after failing at that, hovered over us for 50 years before collapsing.
But if you’re saying that we shouldn’t anymore be afraid of them now that we’re in NATO, perhaps you’re right. We’ll still need to be cognizant of the fact that Russia is our only potential enemy on this planet.
But Russia is in the wrong for thinking NATO existing next to them is a threat.
Why is it OK when you say it but bad when they do? If you’re encouraging others to put themselves in your shoes (“you had to be there”), why can’t you put yourself in Russia’s shoes and see how they could reasonably perceive NATO as a threat?
I’m not actually saying that Russia just existing close to us is a threat. I’m saying that what Russia is doing and how it’s behaving, and how it talks publically is a threat.
But I do understand how NATO might be viewed as a threat to some nations or world leaders. I don’t immediately remember any particurarily good (liberal, free, non-oppressive, democratic) nations that NATO poses a risk to, however. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.
I’m not actually saying that Russia just existing close to us is a threat.
That’s exactly what you said, although you said it about the USSR, which was even more absurd.
I don’t immediately remember any particurarily good (liberal, free, non-oppressive, democratic) nations that NATO poses a risk to, however. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.
So clever to fall back on the “well if I did do it, they deserved it” defense.
Do you think the people of Libya, a country you’d say deserved it, prefer their country after the NATO attack on it? They went from one of the highest (if not the highest) living standards on the continent to a decade of civil war and open-air slave markets.
I don’t think I was being very clever there, but I’ll take it!
Do you think the people of Libya, a country you’d say deserved it, prefer their country after the NATO attack on it? They went from one of the highest (if not the highest) living standards on the continent to a decade of civil war and open-air slave markets.
Gaddafi’s Libya didn’t seem to fit any of liberal, free, non-oppressive or democratic. I think we also have to note that that intervention was based on a UN Security Council resolution, which no member (not even Russia or China) opposed. So not really a NATO operation exclusively.
Libya went from bad to worse as a consequence though, about that you’re not wrong.
Gaddafi’s Libya didn’t seem to fit any of liberal, free, non-oppressive or democratic.
That’s the point: your “well they deserved it” excuse is nonsense. Taking your arbitrary definition of “bad” countries at face value, all NATO interventions have done is make situations worse. Its actions are much more consistent with destroying regional economic competitors than with any sort of good faith effort to help anyone.
And all that is setting aside how the U.S. and its allies have destroyed any “liberal, free, non-oppressive” countries that don’t adequately toe the U.S. line (see Indonesia and Chile, among others). The countries that remain have to choose between being subservient to the U.S. (to varying degrees) or becoming the type of state liberals like you deem deserving of wholesale destruction.
that intervention was based on a UN Security Council resolution, which no member (not even Russia or China) opposed
Russia, China, and three other states abstained, and only NATO countries actually dropped bombs.
These things happen to axis powers during WW2, yes. Perhaps the white Finn government shouldn’t have slaughtered its own people, joined with Hitler, kept Russian people in concentration camps, and participated in the seige of Leningrad.
Perhaps the white Finn government shouldn’t have slaughtered its own people
Yeah well civil wars are a bitch. It’s difficult to say for sure, but I’m pretty sure if the Reds had won that one, a similar or worse slaughtering would have taken place. At least it happened in every other place where the communists won a civil war.
joined with Hitler, kept Russian people in concentration camps, and participated in the seige of Leningrad.
I have to point out that when USSR first attacked Finland (Winter War), we were not yet allied with Hitler. USSR was actually enacting a secret deal[0] they had made with Hitler about the division of East Europe.
The things you mentioned happened during the Continuation War, for which I think we were rightfully punished.
“Uhh well the people we slaughtered totally would have done worse, despite the fact that we were allied with the Nazis and they were against them”
Great little bit of projection my man
The things you mentioned happened during
So you admit you’re cool with concentration camps
muh molotov ribbertropf
Not sure why libs think this is some kind of trump card, but I never get tired of watching them whip it out thinking it will be like holy water to a vampire. Why yes, the USSR was forced to buy itself time to fend off lebensraum by itself after a decade of the other “allies” rejecting it’s defensive treaties and handing Hitler Czechoslovakia on a silver platter. It used that bought time to evacuate 7 million Jewish people from Poland. Say, what was white Finland doing with it’s Jewish people around then?
For which I think we were rightfully punished
I do not take the word of fascist’s descendants about whether or not they have been rightfully punished. The many thousands of working Finns who your government disappeared, tortured, raped, massacred, and dumped in ditches for the crime of wanting a better life would be a better authority on that.
That you still sit there and bloviate about “well they would have done the same to us, probably!” Is the most naked fascist cope at your dogshit country being called out for what it has become, and proof positive that no, you were not punished enough.
Lmao that’s the weakest shit. “Sure we helped starve Leningrad and worked with the people who did the Holocaust, but look, some commies blew up a single synagogue during combat! This proves that we were right to massacre thousands and work with fascists, actually.”
How do you type that out and fight off the embarrassment long enough to hit post? Long practice, I guess. Defending fascists tends to put you in the clown shoes time and time again.
Ok, so disregard that part if you wish. Finland was doing nothing to its jewish population during Winter War. After the alliance, we sent 8 jews who had fled from Germany back, 7 of whom were murdered in concentration camps, and then some 80 from prisoners of war who were jews. These were shitty actions, but also we blocked the deportations of many more. Specifically, exactly 0 Finnish jews were deported to Germany even though this was demanded from us.
goddamn man it’s actually so fucking stupid to be fearful of Russia in Finland.
Yes, Russia, the state still grinding it out in Ukraine 2 years down the line, is suddenly going to invade Finland and trigger a war with the entire western world so they can uhhhhh steal Finland’s lovely lakes. You piss me off
Finland has been in NATO for less than a year. Before that we had a war in which USSR tried to take over the whole country and after failing at that, hovered over us for 50 years before collapsing.
But if you’re saying that we shouldn’t anymore be afraid of them now that we’re in NATO, perhaps you’re right. We’ll still need to be cognizant of the fact that Russia is our only potential enemy on this planet.
“Their mere existence is a threat”
“They’re just existing there…Russianly!”
I guess you had to be there.
Think about what you’re saying.
Why is it OK when you say it but bad when they do? If you’re encouraging others to put themselves in your shoes (“you had to be there”), why can’t you put yourself in Russia’s shoes and see how they could reasonably perceive NATO as a threat?
I’m not actually saying that Russia just existing close to us is a threat. I’m saying that what Russia is doing and how it’s behaving, and how it talks publically is a threat.
But I do understand how NATO might be viewed as a threat to some nations or world leaders. I don’t immediately remember any particurarily good (liberal, free, non-oppressive, democratic) nations that NATO poses a risk to, however. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.
Removed by mod
That’s exactly what you said, although you said it about the USSR, which was even more absurd.
So clever to fall back on the “well if I did do it, they deserved it” defense.
Do you think the people of Libya, a country you’d say deserved it, prefer their country after the NATO attack on it? They went from one of the highest (if not the highest) living standards on the continent to a decade of civil war and open-air slave markets.
I don’t think I was being very clever there, but I’ll take it!
Gaddafi’s Libya didn’t seem to fit any of liberal, free, non-oppressive or democratic. I think we also have to note that that intervention was based on a UN Security Council resolution, which no member (not even Russia or China) opposed. So not really a NATO operation exclusively.
Libya went from bad to worse as a consequence though, about that you’re not wrong.
That’s the point: your “well they deserved it” excuse is nonsense. Taking your arbitrary definition of “bad” countries at face value, all NATO interventions have done is make situations worse. Its actions are much more consistent with destroying regional economic competitors than with any sort of good faith effort to help anyone.
And all that is setting aside how the U.S. and its allies have destroyed any “liberal, free, non-oppressive” countries that don’t adequately toe the U.S. line (see Indonesia and Chile, among others). The countries that remain have to choose between being subservient to the U.S. (to varying degrees) or becoming the type of state liberals like you deem deserving of wholesale destruction.
Russia, China, and three other states abstained, and only NATO countries actually dropped bombs.
These things happen to axis powers during WW2, yes. Perhaps the white Finn government shouldn’t have slaughtered its own people, joined with Hitler, kept Russian people in concentration camps, and participated in the seige of Leningrad.
Yeah well civil wars are a bitch. It’s difficult to say for sure, but I’m pretty sure if the Reds had won that one, a similar or worse slaughtering would have taken place. At least it happened in every other place where the communists won a civil war.
I have to point out that when USSR first attacked Finland (Winter War), we were not yet allied with Hitler. USSR was actually enacting a secret deal[0] they had made with Hitler about the division of East Europe.
The things you mentioned happened during the Continuation War, for which I think we were rightfully punished.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact
“Uhh well the people we slaughtered totally would have done worse, despite the fact that we were allied with the Nazis and they were against them”
Great little bit of projection my man
So you admit you’re cool with concentration camps
Not sure why libs think this is some kind of trump card, but I never get tired of watching them whip it out thinking it will be like holy water to a vampire. Why yes, the USSR was forced to buy itself time to fend off lebensraum by itself after a decade of the other “allies” rejecting it’s defensive treaties and handing Hitler Czechoslovakia on a silver platter. It used that bought time to evacuate 7 million Jewish people from Poland. Say, what was white Finland doing with it’s Jewish people around then?
I do not take the word of fascist’s descendants about whether or not they have been rightfully punished. The many thousands of working Finns who your government disappeared, tortured, raped, massacred, and dumped in ditches for the crime of wanting a better life would be a better authority on that.
That you still sit there and bloviate about “well they would have done the same to us, probably!” Is the most naked fascist cope at your dogshit country being called out for what it has become, and proof positive that no, you were not punished enough.
At the time of the Winter War? Nothing, I think? USSR destroyed a synagogue in bombings in Wiborg, though.
Lmao that’s the weakest shit. “Sure we helped starve Leningrad and worked with the people who did the Holocaust, but look, some commies blew up a single synagogue during combat! This proves that we were right to massacre thousands and work with fascists, actually.”
How do you type that out and fight off the embarrassment long enough to hit post? Long practice, I guess. Defending fascists tends to put you in the clown shoes time and time again.
Ok, so disregard that part if you wish. Finland was doing nothing to its jewish population during Winter War. After the alliance, we sent 8 jews who had fled from Germany back, 7 of whom were murdered in concentration camps, and then some 80 from prisoners of war who were jews. These were shitty actions, but also we blocked the deportations of many more. Specifically, exactly 0 Finnish jews were deported to Germany even though this was demanded from us.
Oh no! Don’t massacre all of the antisemites and fascists in my nation!