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signing into cloud services and downloading apps is just so much easier to do!
This is actually true, but it doesn’t speak to why self hosting is “impossible” and more to how the lack of education around computers have reached an inflection point.
There’s no reason why self hosting should be some bizarre concept; In another reality, we would all have local servers and firewalls that then push our content into the wider internet and perhaps even intranet based notes. Society as a whole would be better if we chose to structure the internet that way instead of handing the keys to the biggest companies on the stock market.
I’ll give this podcast a listen to though, as it might be interesting. I think the reality is that some more docker frontends might help casual users jump into the realm of self hosting – especially be setting up proxy managers and homepage sites (like homarr) that work intuitively that never requires you to enter ports and IPs (though fearing that is also an education problem, not a problem with the concept itself.)
If you want self-hosting for everyone, then I suspect you’re gonna have something like a console – a self-contained box that requires virtually no configuration.
So something like a Synology NAS, I guess.
I suppose that that’s an “appliance-like computer” though I was thinking more of general-purpose hardware that takes software modules.
Like, think of how you install a game on a console. Maybe you set up your account at the beginning and plonk in a wireless password, but beyond that, there’s no further essential configuration for the thing to work. Same kind of idea. You get box, do initial minimal setup. After that, you install software modules, and they have no more configuration involved.
If more configuration is required, then it’s just not going to be something sufficiently accessible for everyone to use.
That’s probably not what the typical user on this community is looking for, but I think that that’s probably what would be required if one wants everyone in the public to be able to self-host.
And even that is not for the masses. It’s good, it’s for the medium savvy folks, but it will never be for my wife - or for my mother!
There’s no reason why self hosting should be some bizarre concept; In another reality, we would all have local servers
In the late 2000s, Opera had a very interesting product called “Opera Unite”. It was essentially a self-hosting platform built into the web browser. You could use it to chat, host a website, share photos, share files (and let other people share files with you), and a few other things. It had a guest book called “the fridge” where people could leave you post it notes.
They’d give you a subdomain which would either connect to it directly (if your network allows UPnP or you forwarded the port), otherwise they’d proxy it via their servers.
Basically, it was a super simple solution to create a decentralized web. The goal was to let everyone own their own data in a way that anyone could understand, without having to know anything about server hosting. Instead of just browsing the web, you could contribute to it at the same time.
It worked surprisingly well, but never caught on with the general public, and they killed it off about three years later.
Oh you summer child (I upvoted, but won’t waste an hour of my life listening to random internet stuff). I don’t think it’s lack of education, in this world it’s very possible to educate yourself, it’s a lack of understanding (due to misinformation and corporate sponsored laziness) the implications of that easy click, or of what others can get without your consent. Privacy isn’t dead, it’s just now mostly for the rich.
Condescension is a terrible way to kindle enthusiasm. C’mon, if you know this shit, extend a hand to those who don’t.
My isp doesn’t allow self hosting (available to WAN). Isn’t that a pretty common condition in ToS for most ISPs?
Have you looked into setting up a reverse proxy? If you haven’t already, check out Traefik or Ngnix.
Here we have net neutrality so they legally can’t restrict what you’re doing with your connection, unless it’s illegal or if you are doing stupid shit like messing with their infrastructure.
CGNAT is decently common though and that can restrict your self hosting capabilities substantially, but you can work around it if you want.
They even have a term for this — local-first software — and point to apps like Obsidian as proof that it can work.
This touches on something that I’ve been struggling to put into words. I feel like some of the ideas that led to the separation of files and applications to manipulate them have been forgotten.
There’s also a common misunderstanding that files only exist in blocks on physical devices. But files are more of an interface to data than an actual “thing”. I want to present my files - wherever they may be - to all sorts of different applications which let me interact with them in different ways.
Only some self-hosted software grants us this portability.
I want to present my files - wherever they may be - to all sorts of different applications which let me interact with them in different ways.
Only some self-hosted software grants us this portability.
I’d say almost everything is already covered with Samba shares and docker bind mounts. With Samba shares the data is presented across network to my Kodi clients, the file browser on my phone, and the file browsers of all my computers. And with docker bind mounts those files are presented to any services that I want to run.
Devil’s advocate: what about the posts and comments I’ve made via Lemmy? They could be presented as files (like email). I could read, write and remove them. I could edit my comments with Microsoft Word or
ed. I could run some machine learning processing on all my comments in a Docker container using just a bind mount like you mentioned. I could back them up to Backblaze B2 or a USB drive with the same tools.But I can’t. They’re in a PostgreSQL database (which I can’t query), accessible via a HTTP API. I’ve actually written a Lemmy API client, then used that to make a read-only file system interface to Lemmy (https://pkg.go.dev/olowe.co/lemmy). Using that file system I’ve written an app to access Lemmy from a weird text editing environment I use (developed at least 30 years before Lemmy was even written!): https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/1035382
More ideas if you’re interested at https://upspin.io
TLDR: Selfhosting is hard. Obsidian is easy. Federation is a thing.
@spaduf That’s really nice, I actually use Obsidian myself for note taking and I can say that I will never go back to normal note taking software. The internet and software needs to change to be for the user, for if the software doesn’t exist in the future. We never know if a service will go but we shouldn’t loose everything.
Love Obsidian and linked notes in general. The potential utility there is insane but it’s such a steep learning curve. I really think that in the not too distant future they’ll be teaching it in schools.
Proprietary software should NOT be taught in schools! We already have way too much of that
I really hope so, it should be taught, because for me it was a slow learning process. First I started using Obsidian, and moving all my notes from Evernote, Notion, and others manually. After that I moved to Logseq, which is like Obsidian but open-source. And the last step was using an open-source syncing tool (Syncthing) to have my notes synced locally in all devices. And now I have been 2 years self-hosting my notes in a really easy way.
Projects like Runtipi have potential for the masses, imo. Single click deployment of apps on your own server…if you can get Runtipi installed first, of course. But hey, a step closer I suppose.
I’m very new to selfhosting, only started in earnest in April of this year. So I definitely felt the hosts frustrations in deploying (or trying to deploy) solutions I wanted to take back from Google and Microsoft. I’m still learning and am almost to the point where I’m comfortable pulling the plug on Google photos entirely. But it’s a lot of research for newbs.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters CGNAT Carrier-Grade NAT DNS Domain Name Service/System HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web IP Internet Protocol NAS Network-Attached Storage NAT Network Address Translation
5 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 6 acronyms.
[Thread #254 for this sub, first seen 31st Oct 2023, 08:40] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
My respect has increased for the verge
They talked in a recent podcast about how they’re doing a full pivot to the fediverse and that certainly got my attention.
