/e/OS is android lol. Yes it’s better than the version of android that ships with phones by default, but grapheneos is still way better than e/os (even though they’re all android)
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
not being able to use contactless pay does not equal “NFC can’t be used on anything”.
Technically you’re correct, but it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve literally never used NFC for anything besides contactless payment and initial phone setup when migrating from an older Android phone to a newer one. For most people NFC is synonymous with contactless payment.
If you get a pixel watch you can pair it and use that for Google Pay FYI and have Graphene OS on your phone.
it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve
big detail. I connect my Sony XM4s to my phone with NFC multiple times a day. not to mention that you still can use Google Pay on rooted devices with some workarounds. not to mention that some bank apps don’t use Google Pay for contactless payments at all. I’ve been paying via NFC with my bank app on a rooted phone for years until they scrapped their own solution and adopted the GPay approach instead.
Sorry, I don’t understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.
NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.
If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
It’s due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a “Google certified OS,” which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take. I’ll take calyxOS or divestOS until then.
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.
GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won’t, and shouldn’t, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.
Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That’s the only way you get other manufacturers.
My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A. They are completely unaffordable new, and only hit below $300 when they barely have any support yet (or are used). I don’t mind using an EOL phome because with short support like on phones it is unavoidable, but that would be after alreafdy overpaying.
Honestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me, but it’s literally every phone on the market. I’ve looked, it’s impossible to find a phone that doesn’t force you to replace it every few years unless you go to a plain dumb phone that only supports voice calls and maybe basic SMS with no apps. That’s just a nonstarter in this day and age.
Even alternative Android firmware like GrapheneOS and /e/OS are dependent on the stock firmware releases by the phone manufacturer so when the manufacturer goes EOL and stops releasing updates your alternative installs also are effectively EOL.
The only solution to this problem I’ve seen that seems like it has a chance is Linux Phone OS, but it still has several problems that make it unusable for most people (biggest one probably being that it provides absolutely terrible battery life).
Honestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me
It’s 7 years now.
Although Americans typically keep their smartphones for 2.5 years, according to Statista, so 5 years seems more than long enough.
My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A
Have you priced out any comparable phones? They’re practically a steal at their discounted prices.
Most people around me carry budget phones under $200. so no, far from a steal.
I mean, that’s fine, but that absolutely does not make a $450 phone “completely unaffordable”…
Most people around me carry $1k+ iPhones.
You live in a richer area then. Most people where I live make less than 1k a month.
They’re not rich, they’re just stupid. They pay $25/mo or whatever for 80 years. It’s not wealth, it’s just shitty culture.
Almost every paragraph is it’s own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?
Even the name is a marketing turd
AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Iirc E/OS is based on Lineage, but takes a horrifying long time to patch in security updates on top of Lineage’s already somewhat laggy patches. If you choose to use it make sure you’re aware of that going in.
Also, like IIGxC said it’s a android. Maybe slightly more private that most stock versions on most phones. But that’s like saying [insert Linux distro] is better than Linux.
LineageOS will only patch Android. It will not patch hardware vulnerabilities after the device no longer has support from the manufacturer.
Both of these OSes are dangerous for privacy and security.
What’s your suggestion for hardware patches after the manufacturer ends support?
There is no option. There is too much variation in the various phone chips for the hardware hacking community to reverse engineer more than a bare handful. And as soon as the hardware has been reverse engineered, it will never be used again by a manufacturer making the exercise largely pointless.
Add to that, the fact that Qualcomm actively discourages long term support of their chips….
That’s why Fairphone choose a QCM6490 for the fairphone 5. It’s far from being the best, but it has longer term support than mainstream oriented SOC.
Since the SOC will probably be enough for most of users, it’s not a bad option I guess.
Get a new phone the vendor does support.
Firmware patching is applying low-level firmware to the modem or baseband, similar to a BIOS update on a desktop or server. These binary libraries are (a) proprietary, and (b) opaque to the user (meaning they’re not documented like normal software)
Once a vendor drops support for a platform, that’s it, that’s the end of the line. The device will still work, but any, glitches, firmware vulnerabilities, or updates for network-side changes will no longer be addressed.
This is just not realistic though, as the support is so short. You cannot buy phones ever few years. Only thing you can realistically do is apply at least Lineage and exercise caution.
Denying reality isn’t realistic either.
Knowing your threat model and being aware of your tradeoffs and decisions is useful. Maybe security isn’t more important than longevity, but the phone owner should be making a deli rate choice.
With the new pixels having 7 years of support things are improving. It would be nice for them to open source the hardware specs at the end of the support window…
Who’s going to be digging into the depths of a 5+ year old phone on the off chance they can find a baseband vulnerability though?
Even if they do find something, the number of people for them to exploit is probably going to be vanishingly small.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/18/22440813/android-devices-active-number-smartphones-google-2021
There are 3 billion Android devices. So basically everyone is incentivized to break in. Especially if the firmware is not updating, that means once you find an exploit it’s good forever
Plus, and most people don’t realize this, the same chips are used in multiple different phones. So you just have to break the baseband once, and you get into multiple different phone models
I would definitely try it, but all the phones I’ve been looking at recently don’t have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS’s. No Lineage, no anything. All because they’re not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I’m looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).
Can someone help me understand why headphone jacks and SD card slots are so important to people? All new phones have audio connections built into the USB-C port, and have enough onboard storage not to require any amount of expansion.
Is the lack of these features really a dealbreaker? I have a Pixel, with custom ROM, and consider myself a power user, and never miss those features at all.
SD cards were nice back when phones had like 16GB of onboard storage and you needed more space for apps and media, but with 512GB onboard storage and the ability to use cloud storage at Wifi 7 speeds, I couldn’t imagine needing more.
Integrated headphone jacks were nice before the vast majority of people used Bluetooth headphones. Even then, a tiny adapter lets me connect any of my old wired headphones or aux cables up no problem.
We’re 18 years into the smartphone age. When the first smartphones came out in 2006, microsd cards were only 2 years old. Now they’re 20 years old. Are we really surprised that this feature is no longer standard?
The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around since the 1950’s, and adapters have been required for tons of audio applications for even longer than that. Do we really need a 70-year-old port integrated into new phones?
Just wait until you find out some of us still want FM on our phones.
The thing with SD cards is that there’s a crapton of phones with 64/128 internals and still don’t have one. I for one wouldn’t really need one if I had 512, but to get to 512 you usually hace to pay a huge premium, because all major manufacturers have adopted the apple model of upcharging for storage. And frankly in the age of affordable 1tb SD cards I should’t have to pay hundreds to get a measly 256 or 512 gb of storage.
The jack is also a manufactured problem ( also pioneered by apple, iirc ). Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones. Its especially ironic for manufacturers who do a lot of greenwashing. The usb-c adapter is an ok compromise though, and I for one am coming around to that l because you can only find jacks on niche or crap phones these days.
I’m not sure why you brought the “tech is old” argument because frankly it doesn’t make sense for these two.
Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones
You don’t, you use an adapter and move on with life.
I seriously do not understand people who die on this hill. The 3.5 Jack is dead in electronics and the only people making the transition painful are the HEADPHONE manufacturers who refuse to wire a USB-C instead of a now-outded plug.
This happens every time an obsolete connector gets phased out: cheap manufacturers keep using it well beyond the reasonable time to swap out, leaving the end users who fear change to cling on even longer for no good reason
I can’t speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.
Bluetooth is neat and all but it’s also super old (28 years!). It’s older than smart phones and sd cards. But age aside, it’s also not reliable. You cannot guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime. So replacing old reliable with old not-reliable doesn’t seem right from a logical perspective.
My only other concern is convenience. But wired and wireless both have pros and cons and I just consider them more or less equal.
I feel like everyone keeps arguing with me about “Wired vs. Bluetooth”, but that has not been my argument.
My argument is “what’s the big deal about using a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter?”
You still get wired headphones. I have a Pixel 7 Pro and use my Sennheisers on them. I do not understand the problem. The feature isn’t missing, and the adapter is like $5 and has no downsides. For a couple extra bucks I got a Power+Aux adapter, and now I can plug it into my sound system at home and play it wired while it charges.
I love how anyone with half a fucking brain gets down voted.
Rather than point out where youre wrong thet just keep yelling about Bluetooth and downvotig once they realize they’ve run out of “gotchas”
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
I love how anyone with
half a fucking brainpoor conversational skills and an inability to see things from someone else’s perspective gets down voted.Try talking to people online as though they were in the same room as you, IRL. If you’re already doing that, I have to ask, how many offline friends do you have?
I have been, I don’t respect people who want things to stay the way they were because they refuse to try new things.
People with very polite and normal responses were gettug downvoters just because they offered solutions that can’t be dismissed easily, so downvoting was done instead.
It allllways comes to the civility argument when people know their position is dog shit, too. Cute.
I don’t have a position on cell phone interfaces and hadn’t planed to give one. No skin in this game, really, though it’s clearly a contentious issue!
I just can’t help but notice when people are being terrible conversation partners, mostly. Me finding you to be an asshole has nothing to do with how I feel about cell phone ports.
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
Are you 12?
I think you might have half a brain. Me and the gentleman on the other side of the argument are having a conversation right now so please go away.
Sorry, that’s not how public forums work.
Don’t like me replying to someone else? You can fuck off, you know?
If you have 512gb of storage I think you likely paid more for your phone than I have for my last 3 phones combined going back 5 or 6 years.
Decent wired earbuds are $20. Bluetooth earbuds in that price range are terrible and uncomfortable.
Some of us can’t or won’t spend lots of money on disposable tech like phones.
You consider yourself a power user, I’m just a guy who needs a phone to phone, text and do a few internet tasks like casual games for work downtime.
I don’t have anything against people who like having the latest and greatest tech but I don’t have that urge or see the need in some cases. I generally don’t like being pushed into spending more money with no appreciable gain in functionality.
I guess if you’re just using your phone for a few tiny things, the lack of an SD card should be no problem. What good is tons of storage if you’re just “texting and doing a few internet tasks like casual games”?
And dedicated headphone port or not, you can always plug wired headphones in with an adapter. The port is still there, it’s just a modern port, not one from the 50’s.
Still waiting on a real answer to why these dated features matter so much. Sure, my flagship phone may be more powerful than anything you need, but that doesn’t fit the narrative that these phones are missing critical features that you apparently need, especially not in terms of storage capacity or accessory compatibility.
These things aren’t deal-breakers they’re conveniences for me. It’s easy to transfer stuff to a new phone with an SD card, if your old phones screen dies (has happened to me twice over the years) you can still easily move your stuff over to the new phone.
My last phone only had 64gb of storage. I always have some audio-books and podcasts on my phone for when I go to very rural areas with bad reception like the lake. Up until the phone I bought this year with 256gb I would have been always cramped for space without an SD card.
Why use an adapter if you don’t have to, that’s just one more thing to go wrong or get in the way. I had a pixel for a while and I did use an adapter for my headphones. They were awkwardly placed with the adapter, if the usb port broke because of the headphone adapter being awkwardly placed I couldn’t charge the phone. If I broke a headphone jack I’m just inconvenienced.
I don’t understand why someone being content using older technology bothers you so much that you want them to defend their choices.
Even if the $800-$1000 phones had those features I wouldn’t spend that much on a phone. If only the flagships had those features I’d go without. Thy’re nice to have but not must haves.
Do you also get annoyed with people who play retro games or listen to vinyl records? Do you wonder why people drive classic cars or wear analog watches?
[ confirmation bias at play. you have switched to bluetooth. it meets or exceeds all your needs. you don’t see much public indication to the contrary. you figure bluetooth is the best. ]
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simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
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Audio quality - bluetooth is lossy. we just were given AptX lossless in 2021 ( another confirmation bias ) “Sounds great to me” “I can’t hear the difference”.
2 things are both possibly true though: I can’t hear the difference. Other people hear a big difference. this seems impossible to some people. As if their senses are the apogee of human sense. -
lag. new codecs lower latency, but lag lag lag. You couldn’t possibly use your device as a synth/music instrument and ‘play’ the lag is far to great. Same with games.
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whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it? we’ve always had it. The work is already done. Its already baked in the cake, why you gotta take it out?
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Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work. They inevitably break. They often downgrade the sound - I have 3 usb to audio adapters for android that all hiss for no reason.
The issue is that when the marketers are selling us a ‘clean vision of the future’ they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away. Then they paint the people who feel pain because of the change as neanderthals who wouldn’t know better if it bit them. When they do know better. They had better (for them) and progress made it worse (for them). To which the marketers generally say - you should be someone else.
Lol @ this barely coherent drivel being up voted.
Lol harder at the butthurt 3.5mm fetishists who downvote simple answers to their unbelievably petty and stupid criticisms.
Lol hardest at every dipshit who mentioned Bluetooth and didn’t like when the adapters were pointed out as the basic solution to their whining.
“We don’t want solutions we want to bitch”
simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
Use the adapter plug as mentioned. You can even just leave it on your normal headphones if you only use 1 pair!
whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it?
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design, etc. again, you can just use an adapter to have all the stuff you’re whining about back.
Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work
No, you’re either talking out of your ass or buying the cheapest possible cord and being shocked when it doesn’t work right. My $8 adapter has worked for 4 years no problem driving over-ear headphones no issues.
they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
If you want to be mad at anyone: be mad at the people making headphones with 3.5mm jacks rather than USB-C, as they’re the ones using an outdated port.
Ok great, let me charge my phone while I listen to music, oh wait now I need another adaptor.
Use the adapter plug as mentioned.
Type C can’t spin 360°. I have a 90-degree 3.5mm jack, which doesn’t create a risk of breaking the port, so I can put my phone in my pocket in any position.
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design
Check out the Sony Xperia 10. It’s the smallest phone on the market with a 3.5mm jack, micro SD slot, 5000 mAh battery, and IP68 rating.
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
Haha, remember 2000s, when most phones were using proprietary connector for both charging and headphones output? Everyone hated that stuff.
Type C can’t spin 360°
Headphone jack portion of the adapter can
Remember the 2000s
Yeah, because everyone having a different charger is the same thing as an actually UNIVERSAL connector.
I mean that phones had combo port both for charging and headphones. Using adapters was annoying. And if you saying that 3.5mm is obsolete than why newest Macbooks have 3.5mm port?
These are all great rebuttals to arguments I never made. Top tier strawmanning 🏆.
Anyway, there’s a headphone port built into your USB-C port. Use any headphones you want.
I didn’t respond to _any arguments you made. I thought you posed the question ‘why?’
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Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It’s something being actively worked on, but it’s still only half baked and I wouldn’t recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it’s actually usable.
One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I’m aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.
PostmarketOS devs have made huge improvements over the past year. Now it can be used for daily driving. Some functions do not work simply due to the lack of drivers.
I love /e/OS, but it’s not better. I’ve had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time…
Which version and phone are you on ? I’m on “t” version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.
I first installed the “s” version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the “t” one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren’t available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.
Oh I see that there are “t” versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn’t know about these versions, thank you so much.
Can you confirm that I’ll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?
That’s great !
R and T should have a different android base, so, It would be safer to wipe everything while upgrading.
1.8-r, which seems to be the official version
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