$2M each, right? Right?!
I agree this seems low, but this is just a settlement with the city. Hopefully they’ll get more from other organizations.
ITT: I never thought I’d have to tag users as “Uvalde Apologists”
Can we tag users? How? I just block all apologists for all heinous shite.
I do it through sync not sure what other apps have that function. It’s only for your personal viewing and I tend not to block people because I want to see the comment for the drama, but now I know not to interact with that person.
So it’s a feature of the app you’re using and not Lemmy itself? I think having a tagging functionality would also be good for Lemmy.
It gets misused ala reddit block list which seemed like a good idea but was co-opted to mean, anyone a small set of users disagreed with. Auto ban from half the sub reddits.
…no? We’re talking about personal tagging, only you the user can see those tags
Do you know what I was talking about? No. This is a block list that was shared so you could (what’s the word?) automatically fill your blocklist with a disapproved group of people. This is basically letting someone defederate for you.
That may be what YOU were talking about. That is not what WE, the rest of the people in this comment thread, were talking about.
Eezyville@sh.itjust.works - I think having a tagging functionality would also be good for Lemmy.
Sizzler@lrpnk.net - It gets misused ala reddit block list which seemed like a good idea but was co-opted to mean, anyone a small set of users disagreed with. Auto ban from half the sub reddits.
You brought a “block list” into this convo where we were discussing user made tags that only the user who made the tag can see and aren’t shared and spread to others…
What bothers me most about this is the huge amount of ignorance all sides have on this subject.
The issue IMO, is the fucking AR-15. Police Officers immediately went in when they knew there were problems, but when the subject had an AR-15 that could literally shoot through school walls (ie: Police Officers were outgunned and out-matched), they retreated.
Yes, there was a few hours where they were too scared to do anything, further traumatizing the children / teachers. But this is fucking it. Talk about the firepower and the tactical decision to retreat.
Handguns CANNOT compete against an AR15. The AR15 has superior power, penetration, and accuracy. The officers made the right decision to retreat, regroup, and further come up with a new plan initially. Though their cowardice in the face of the AR15 is what needs to be highlighted most of all.
There’s nothing wrong with being scared of a bigger, more accurate, more powerful gun with more ammunition. If they truly were outgunned, then retreat was the best option (otherwise, officers would have died and that would have forced a retreat while carrying a slain officer around, a much harder task). Shit gets bad to worse in a combat situation if you don’t outgun the opponent.
Dinky handguns won’t do shit against the body armor of the attacker either.
This is literally the case where liberals need to come together, understand the mechanics of the gun involved and push for better gun control laws. If officers in Texas get outgunned and are forced to retreat, then support those officers and push for gun legislation. Everyone knows these bigger guns serve as cop-killers and ultimately fuck our society over. Just quit being dumbass snowflakes about blue-lives-matter or pro-Police stances or whatever.
Being pro-Police here AND anti-gun is the right move in this case. But instead, Liberals fuck over their own politics because they’re too braindead to play their cards right.
Conservatives clearly care more about guns than Police Officers. Punish the Conservative view ya pansies.
The cops had AR15s, body armor, helmets, flash bang grenades, the works. They also outnumbered the shooter 376 to 1. The shooters vest had no armor plating.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-timeline/
Also note: I’m talking about 11:40am. These are the pre-SWAT police officers who rushed into the building almost immediately after the shooter entered the building.
SWAT doesn’t arrive until 12:10pm.
So no. For the time-period between 11:40am to 12:10pm, Police are just armed with whatever they got. Normal officers don’t go around with Flash Bangs, Body Armor, AR15s. Most officers just have a handgun until SWAT arrives.
Cool.
Now take that highly-penetrative AR15 and shoot it into a school building, knowing full well that the bullets will penetrate the walls and kill the people on the other side of the school.
Even when everyone has an AR15, the shooter still has the advantage, because he had the children hostage. There were also questions on whether the school was clear before any potential shootout (see the problem with AR15’s huge amount of penetration: shooting through the attacker and hitting children in another room is a serious concern still even as SWAT arrives).
Even when you give everyone the works, the problem at play here was the AR15 in the hands of the shooter, which required the police to take a step back and rework tactics entirely.
Thinking from the perspective of the cops side will 100% give yall a ton of evidence and logical arguments to fuck up the pro-gun AR15 lobby. Just think damn it.
.223/5.56 will not penetrate a cinder block wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Gp3hbTmXA
Among the tactical officers who responded were members of the Border Patrol’s elite Bortac team but they couldn’t get into the room because of a steel door and cinder block construction, The Wall Street Journal
Also, most cops carry AR15s or a similar rifle in their cop car.
Also, most cops carry AR15s or a similar rifle in their cop car.
Good job highlighting your ignorance to Uvalde. Did you read the police log yet?
We have him in the room. He’s got an AR-15. He’s shot a lot … we don’t have firepower right now … It’s all pistols … I don’t have a radio … I need you to bring a radio for me, and give me my radio for me … I need to get one rifle … I’m trying to set him up
Read the fucking log. Have you read the log yet? What time was this radio message sent?
I just watched the video, there are two officers in the hallway with rifles at 11:40am.
Interesting, but they still stood by after SWAT arrived, so your point is moot.
The original police officers tussled with a shooter with body-armor and superior AR15 firepower until they cornered him. And that wasn’t good enough for yall dumbasses.
These original officers responding to the call were god damn heroes. And if anyone read the log they’d know.
Blame SWAT for being shitty and taking their time. But… even then… I have the AR15 penetrating walls / killing other people issue for good guy with gun vs bad guy with gun. I don’t think its very easy or clear to figure out the wall strength, which directions are “safe to shoot at”, etc. etc.
There’s a lot to think about here, and that’s not even covering the hostages. Just figuring out how to clear the other rooms and making sure enough of the area is clear enough for heavy weaponry is a big enough deal before you send in SWAT and possibly murder some children in the crossfire.
In any case: my point is clear. The AR15 is the big issue. We seriously should be pushing to ban the AR15 rifle, and any other weapons of similar penetration / muzzle velocity.
You have spoken in a clear, concise, and convincing manner. Well done! You’ve swayed this person.
And you are of course correct in your implication we need to begin design and production of the AR16 posthaste! A gun that shoot through 3 walls is the clear solution. Well done sir!
But in all seriousness you are correct. A nation littered with mentally unstable morons and high-powered rifles is a potently and predictably tragic way to be.
It is outrageous that you are getting downvoted for such a well put together set of comments. Thankyou very much for taking the time. I’m embarrassed for the people who downvote because they know you’re right and they dislike the conclusion.
There is zero reason to be pro-police here.
And who gives a fuck about the weapon used. That does not excuse their lack of action.
Rightists always have such misguided takes.
And who gives a fuck about the weapon used. That does not excuse their lack of action.
Pistols don’t beat AR15 rifles. If the opponent outguns you, you need to wait for backup and bigger guns. Basic tactics.
And if everyone is using big guns during a hostage situation, the “Good Guys” have a huge disadvantage due to the penetrative effects of powerful guns. Good Guys don’t want to kill children with missed (or even hit) shots. A headshot vs the shooter would not only penetrate the shooter’s skull, but also the wall behind the shooter. A wall that you’re not sure if the children or the teachers of the school were hiding behind yet.
Would you rush in to suicide yourself if you knew that it wouldn’t help anything?
This is one of the dumbest takes i have ever read on this site and that is saying something. I really hope you can go through some introspection and have a paradigm shift. Its not easy to change but goddamn. I sincerely hope youre just an ignorant kid.
The fact that you can’t respond to OPs points speaks volumes. It is fine if you don’t like the conclusion, but you won’t convince anyone of anything if you are unable to form rebuttals to their points.
No you.
The gunman enters the school at 11:35am. Pre-SWAT officers charge after the gunman almost immediately afterwards. Initial skirmishes between the Police (with only handguns) immediately show that they were outgunned. Officers ask for SWAT team backup by 11:40am.
Read the fucking report.
Sadly, it’s no use. They try to figure out what your conclusion is, and then they shut down entirely and don’t consider why the facts lead to the conclusion. They can’t respond to specifics, all they can do is call names.
If the cops can’t figure out how to suppress and flank one guy they should resign.
iT wAs JuSt A fEw HoUrS!!!
Police have all the tools in the world there is no excuse for their lack of action while children are being killed.
No they don’t and Cops shouldn’t have those tools.
I’d be far more comfortable if in these cases of national emergency, the National Guard showed up with actual heavy weapon experience and training. SWAT is a decent compromise (a few units of specialized / highly trained cops). But we should not make the “typical” cop go down the journey towards warrior / soldier.
If the typical cop can’t be expected to uphold their duty to protect and serve then they don’t need to be a cop. I do not care if American courts have suddenly decided that the oath and slogan used my police for decades is not binding.
They don’t need bigger or better weapons, they need brains. They had access to cameras in the building. They knew and could have tracked the gunman using those. Set up around two corners near them, team 1 supresses to distract then team two takes out the gunman. Deploying the national guard would take too long, and not all cities have a swat team.
If “typical” cops aren’t expected to risk their safety, then I expect them to take a “typical” paycut. Actually maybe that’s what should happen. Separate real police and law enforcement. Real police get firearms and responsibilities, law enforcement can worry about tickets and fines.
The police already cornered the guy by 11:40am. The question was the final breaching operation, which was left to the SWAT team.
and not all cities have a swat team.
Uvalde brought in the SWAT team in this instance. The end. They had access to SWAT.
If “typical” cops aren’t expected to risk their safety, then I expect them to take a “typical” paycut.
These Uvalde dudes are being paid like $50k/year or some shit. They’d make more as truck drivers than as Police Officers.
they need brains.
You’re not getting brains with these wages. Anyone smarter would have left for far better jobs with far lower stress.
