oh for fucks sake, putins russia has never once ‘negotiated’ in good faith. they just use it to buy time to resupply and relocate. every peace deal theyve made, THEY broke. ukraine gets to decide when it’s time to talk. the US cant stop them
So possible options as I see them:
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Biden’s USA is stubborn and nihilistic and just wants to kill as many Ukrainians and Russians as possible before Trump comes in and forces Ukraine to accept a treaty
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USA (and Ukraine) knows that Putin hasn’t changed its demands at all so any talks are pointless
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USA (and Ukraine) knows that Russia is losing and doesn’t want to negotiate
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Biden forgot how to use a phone and is too embarrased to ask
I’m personally going with 2 with a sprinkle of 4 and 1. In my happy dreams, 3.
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Why are so many people here from Lemmy.ml and Hexbear assuming Putin and Russia offered an amicable ceasefire? When has Putin EVER shown he would ever want such a thing?
You people have worms in your brains.
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I question why the US is doing the rejection rather than Ukraine (and similarly, why the UK rejected the last peace talks…)
It’s one of Putin’s strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia. He also tries to diminish Ukrainian sovereignity by making it appear as if the US is the overlord, as if Ukraine is an American puppet. It’s all about making Ukraine look like it isn’t its own country. That’s why we get those bullshit historic lessons by that pathetic man-child.
I agree that the history lessons from Putin are bs, but hard disagree that this isn’t NATO/Russia but Ukraine/Russia. Do you know what a proxy war is?
The Vietnam War was a proxy war as well, but I’m pretty sure the (north) vietnamese still quite authentically wanted USA to gtfo.
I agree with what you say. OP is implying that just because “It’s one of Putin’s strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia.” It’s not true. And I would like to challenge that.
Perhaps I perceive this wrong, but it seems like the counterimplication is that this war is primarily between US/NATO and Russia with Ukraine being just a pawn. I don’t think that’s quite true either.
I mean it is mostly is and would like to hear why it’s not true for you.
The case that Ukraine is mostly a pawn is that it gets major military and economic support from NATO/US https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-pledges-further-major-military-economic-aid-ukraine-2024-01-10/ gets information support from NATO [the public/media discourse is heavy pro ukraine; ranging from bbc, dw, france24, nyt, wsj, reuters, etc. ] NATO is picking ukraines leaders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k NATO is telling Ukraine what to do by coercing not to negotiate for peace https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/ While the US knew the consequences of NATO expension https://youtu.be/E3tdF2S04wg?si=cmjik9lRDryxHHEB&t=1312 [love that timestamp]
Ukraine lost its sovereignty back when the coup happened. The war is absolutely between NATO and Russia, and lots of NATO officials have said this fairly openly at this point. People who keep pretending otherwise are utterly disingenuous.
The article you posted: “The Americans refuse to talk unless the Ukrainians are also invited”
You, for some reason: “Why is America deciding for Ukraine?”
I’m pretty sure the Ukrainians will cease firing once the Russians leave their country and stop trying to murder them.
Sure, as long as the US permits them to accept a ceasefire.
What’s the US going to do if Ukraine negotiates a ceasefire?
A coup leading to a more U.S.-aligned government. The U.S. has only done that 100 times, including once in the last decade right there in Ukraine.
How is the USA going to do a coup when Russia can’t?
In this scenario, by assuring the coup plotters that the U.S. will keep funding the war as long as they keep fighting it, as opposed to cutting bait with the coup as an excuse. The coup plotters would then accuse the deposed government of treasonously planning a surrender (a mischaracterization, but that’s par for the course) and portray themselves as acting in the national interest. They then keep the status quo of the war, with just a change in management. This would all fit neatly with the anti-Russia/pro-U.S. propaganda Ukraine has been subjected to. Any Russian objection would be written off as lies.
If Russia tried to support a coup government, that government would be branded as treasonous even if they sought to act in the best interest of the Ukrainian people. The U.S. would immediately seek to discredit and destabilize the coup government, and a lot of Ukrainians would listen as they’re fighting a war with Russia.
Zelensky just removed Zaluzhny from heading the military because Zaluzhny was getting too popular and becoming a political threat. Important to point out that Zelensky has called off the elections that should be happening right now and that there’s growing dissent for his administration due to how poorly the war is going. Also worth pointing out that Zaluzhny has ties to the far right militias of the Ukrainian armed forces and flaunted this fact when Zelensky first tried to have him removed. It would be very easy for NATO to back Zaluzhny and his right wing thugs (the same ones that took part in the maidan coup) against Zelensky if Zelensky breaks with the West’s wishes. US intelligence agencies are very good at pulling at threads of existing dissent to create chaos and oust difficult political leaders
The same way they did in 2014. Don’t worry, the US is very used to this (and this is just from a NATOpedia article).
That’s really bizarre because why does America have a say in Russo-Ukrainian affairs? Shouldn’t a ceasefire be determined by the two parties not currently at a ceasefire?
Somebody who is good at geopolitics explain
